MAGIC! - 94
The following was compiled from the magician's message section of
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Msg #36500 Dated 13:17:22 03-08-92 36453 <--> 36521
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
What magazine, Pete?
Msg #36502 Dated 14:28:14 03-08-92 36490 <--> 36508
From: T A WATERS
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
There are some effects where a stooge is, to laypersons, the first
thought; that is a big problem in mentalism. In other cases, while
magicians may assume the use of a stooge, a layperson might not. I
don't think that a stooge is a common thought in the case of the
LFRings. Mind you, I used to think that the shirt-pull gag obviously
used a stooge from anyone's point of view. I discussed this with Ricki
Dunn, who has done it literally thousands of times, and it turns out
that most people believe it is somehow possible -- they can't really
visualize the topological situation that makes it impossible.
Msg #36503 Dated 16:17:50 03-08-92 -> 36513
From: STEVE BRYANT
To: ALL
Re: BLACKJACK
Don't know if I will find time to play, but am having
fun here going over the blackjack tables. Question:
At most of the Las Vegas casinos, are you allowed to
double down on anything, or only on eleven?
Msg #36508 Dated 16:48:11 03-08-92 36502 <--> 36538
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Is it time to bring up the Theory of False Solutions yet?
Msg #36510 Dated 19:14:45 03-08-92 36446 <--> 36511
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
David,
I've noticed the "telebabble" phenomenon more in recent years
than I had before. They should lose it. More often than not,
someone you thought was an intelligent, well-informed individual
says something so stupid that one never quite looks at that
person the same way again.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36511 Dated 19:14:54 03-08-92 36447 <--> 36512
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
David,
Are techies anything like trekkies?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36512 Dated 19:15:01 03-08-92 36479 <--> 36515
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Jerry,
I had heard that story before, but never had any real source.
The only time I tell it, it is preambled with "This is the story
I heard." If nothing else, it makes for a great story.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36513 Dated 19:15:10 03-08-92 36503 <--> 36686
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
Steve,
In most Las Vegas casinos, the player can double-down on
anything. In some casinos in Nevada, (and *some* in Las Vegas)
the player is only allowed to double-down on ten or elevin.
Usually there will be a plaque on the table describing those
rules, but a quick inquiry to the dealer should get a pleasent,
informative response.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36515 Dated 19:54:49 03-08-92 36510 <--> 36516
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
The reality of most television news is that the performers are trained
to look and sound like they are intelligent and well-informed. The
reality is more like Ted Baxter. But after a while they begin to
believe that they actually know something, so you get telebabble.
Msg #36516 Dated 19:56:15 03-08-92 36511 <--> 36535
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Many techies are trekkies, but not all techies are trekkies, nor are
all trekkies techies.
Msg #36518 Dated 20:56:40 03-08-92 36265 <--> 36554
From: CY KELLER
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: SAY HI
Thanks for the information on the wands. I was hoping the tips
were wood of a different variety. Will think the wands over.
Msg #36519 Dated 20:56:47 03-08-92 36267 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: CLASSIC RENDITIONS
To Tommy Wonder
Interesting comments on learning from books. You do have to use
more imagination using books. Your comments on good teachers is
on the nose. Improvement on effect i.e adaptation to one's own
performing stance is not too easy for a newcomer.
Msg #36520 Dated 20:56:56 03-08-92 36287 <--> 36525
From: CY KELLER
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
That's a great story about the Silver Rings. Henning used the
Vernon routine, so of course it was good. Bob Sheets, and I'm
sure many others, use Vernon. Many too use Vernon on the Cups and
Balls. If you are going to do these two effects, you can't go
very wrong with these routines - so many do. These routines are
like the script to a great play. It is, of course, up to the
actor/magician to interpret the material.
Msg #36521 Dated 20:57:08 03-08-92 36312 <--> 36522
From: CY KELLER
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
You have hit on the problem with Himber. This is the point which
bothers me. I have the feeling that people will get together and
ask to see each other's rings. I would NEVER do the effect for a
very small crowd or where the audience all knew each other, for
this very reason. Also, this weakness is the reason that the
performer must have absolute control over the audience. Not a
trick for the novice.
Msg #36522 Dated 20:57:19 03-08-92 36312 <--> 36523
From: CY KELLER
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
I have been thinking about the newcomer in magic for a long time.
How do you go about learning the craft? Books, Tapes - audio and
visual - and a teacher. Since a novice doesn't know where to
start, a teacher is the BEST method. It's like learning a musical
instrument or any skill. The following comments should be a
starting point for a teacher or a novice.
.
Texts - The Mark Wilson Course or Tarbell are excellent beginner
tomes. For coins there is Bobo. These seem to have all of the
basics, taught quite well. Some others may add to this list.
.
The basics should be learned first. Coin vanishes, card locations,
card forces etc. Then routines using the moves should follow. If
one is learning vanishes, the Vernon Cup and Ball routine or a
matrix with coins can be learned. What is being learned here is
handling or management. When practicing one visualizes a
spectator watching.
.
This is only the beginning. At this point the novice should NOT
perform for an audience of strangers - or GOD FORBID - charge for
a performance. One is still in the early stages.
.
One can perform for a magic club, of course. A caveat on magic
clubs. The most vocal members should be heard with caution. I
have found that they usually know the least.
.
If one is a teacher, only the best methods should be taught. Most
magicians perform something like the Elmsley Count wrong.
.
This is a beginning and I hope the advice is commented on by some
of those here with experience.
Msg #36523 Dated 20:57:55 03-08-92 36312 <--> 36526
From: CY KELLER
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
I don't know how Copperfield does the flying, but I'm willing to
bet that the answer most in the audience have, is correct. So I
have to disagree. As to the impossible, one should read Rick
Johnsonn's theory of the impossible. That may not be the correct
phrasing. The idea is that some tricks are TOO impossible.
Msg #36525 Dated 20:58:13 03-08-92 36337 <--> 36529
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
That's exactly the point TA. It takes a lot of performing savvy
to present either of the effects. This can be said of all tricks
with a borrowed item and a switch. The coin in the bottle is
another effect which fits into this category.
Msg #36526 Dated 20:58:21 03-08-92 36345 <--> 36531
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
H.L. Menckin said something like this. For every problem, there
is an answer which is clear, simple and WRONG. Think of all the
arguments you've heard about an effect. Someone says that the
floating woman is held up by wires. The answer from someone else
is that it can't be - he passed a hoop around her. There are a
lot of tricks we do where we, in a sense, pass a hoop over the
effect. It's those little provers we put in. The card in the
wallet is NOT a duplicate because it is signed. I'm sure you can
think of others.
Msg #36528 Dated 20:58:41 03-08-92 36372 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RINGS
The point is that the Kreskin and Koran performances and persona
convinced the spectators that they were the kind of guys who
could do this sort of thing. Lots of performance know-how and a
preset in the mind of the spectators.
Msg #36529 Dated 20:58:49 03-08-92 36374 <--> 36530
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Once led a group of laymen and laywomen in a discussion of part
of Sacks. The selection dealt with switching. After an
intermisson I performed a bunch of tricks from Sacks. No mention
of switches in the tricks, but someone thought the coin in the
bottle was TOO perfect. I stayed up much of the night thinking
that over. This was BEFORE Rick Johnsonn's theory on the TOO
PERFECT theory. No - I didn't think I was exposing in trying this
experiment.
Msg #36530 Dated 20:59:02 03-08-92 36377 <--> 36532
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Two finger rings linked and thrown on the table? WOW. I'm sure
one wasn't borrowed. Steve Ducheck had a lot of material similar.
Many of his routines were in the book put out by Jerry Mentzer.
Great stuff. Saw him do some of it. Looks impossible. Haven't
seen Scotty do the Origami but it sound good.
Msg #36531 Dated 20:59:11 03-08-92 36378 <--> 36544
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
No audience should be left trying to figure out a method. Some of
them do, however. I'm sure many of them try to work out how a
helicopter can land on the stage during Miss Siagon, or the
chandelier works in Phantom of the Opera. Everyone wants to
understand the unexplainable. Human nature.
.
Thanks for the complete explanation of the creation of the Himber
Ring. I'm sure this will be in your book.
.
Billy McComb has the work in an audio tape. Incidentally ALL of
his audio tapes are the greatest! The NAP hand is a real lesson
in magic. A method of yours was in the Genii some time ago.
Thread!
Msg #36532 Dated 20:59:29 03-08-92 36381 <--> 36547
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
The helper as a stooge is often used to plant an ungimmicked
handkerchief, as one can't usually find one in even a large
audience. This is not private, but I'm interested an any switches
that I can use in the Sun and Moon. I've been trying to do this
for years and most switches don't serve my purpose.
Msg #36533 Dated 20:59:38 03-08-92 36405 <--> 36534
From: CY KELLER
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Steve Spill is the only comedy performer I've seen do the Himber
routine. The finale is the appearance of the spectator's ring
around the stem of a wine glass! The Himber routine may be looked
on as a lead into this climax.
.
How the hell can you be expected to show the linked rings to all
three people at the SAME time? They are in different parts of the
audience!! Doing so would kbe completely out of keeping with the
sense of the effect.
.
No - It's NOT a puzzle if performed correctly. Agree that the
Linking Chinese Rings is more aesthetically pleasing. You have a
choice - aesthetics or a real mystery.
Msg #36534 Dated 20:59:56 03-08-92 36414 <--> 36546
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
When you slide the three unlinked rings on a pencil or swizzle
stick and slide them off linked, they DO link visibly. Pete, you
did have a method in print for the finish. You have another?
Msg #36535 Dated 21:00:03 03-08-92 36446 <--> 36537
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
David - Marvelous story about the disk and the magnent. I hope
all the guys and gals understand the problem.
Msg #36536 Dated 21:00:09 03-08-92 36464 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: HIMBER RINGS
Karrel Fox on the Cigarette through Coin. In print. All of my Fox
books are on loan, so can't help. Incidentally ALL of his books
contain easy-to-do methods and GREAT effects. Can recommend them
to everyone.
Msg #36537 Dated 21:00:18 03-08-92 36479 <--> 36548
From: CY KELLER
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
NO! The original bug was a kind of moth found by a team which
included a female member who developed COBOL. I can't think of
her name, and have checked my references - no go. I have a book
somewhere with a picture of the actual "bug". She invented the
name.
.
Since Ada Lovelace was the original programmer for Babbage ? the
world of computers owes a lot to the women. So there Stacey et
al. Where would we all be without the women? Where would we be
without Mrs. Kotkin or Mrs Verner?
Msg #36538 Dated 21:00:32 03-08-92 36508 <--> 36540
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Yeah - the theory of false solutions - and the Impossible theory.
Maybe all of us should consider these ideas in the discussion.
Msg #36540 Dated 21:09:00 03-08-92 36508 <--> 36549
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
It isn't one I agree with; while I think Tamariz is brilliant -- his
SONATA is an amazing book -- it seems to me that when you begin
structuring effects along those lines you have given up on creating the
experience of magic in "real time"...in other words, while the Tamariz
procedure may help in having people analyze something afterward and
decide that it must be a miracle, I think that in some (not all) cases
the course needed to set up these false paths is not theatrically valid
for the sense of true magic.
Msg #36544 Dated 21:16:54 03-08-92 36523 <--> 36545
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Copperfield's flying routine is very carefully constructed to take the
audience's assumptions and theories pretty much in the order they occur
and demolish them one by one. First -- they think he's on a wire; the
way he moves seems to discount that -- then -- they think it might be
a bunch of wires or some other support; the spinning hoops eliminate
that -- then -- they think it's SOMETHING on the stage; his isolation
in the glass box eliminates that. At this point most of them have
given up and are just enjoying the effect -- but a few are thinking
that if they were up there on stage, they would know how it was done;
then David picks up the woman and flies around with her. At that point
I don't think anybody keeps trying to figure it. The routine one by
one eliminates solutions until all that's left is magic. In most cases
(see my earlier post on this) I don't think this is the ideal way to go
about things, but here it works brilliantly.
Msg #36545 Dated 21:23:12 03-08-92 36531 <--> 36561
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
I think that set of tapes McComb did some years ago are among the very
best of their kind. I hate to say it, but someone following those
routines to the letter would have a better act than many that are now
working. Billy put in the stuff that you usually only find out through
a lot of painful and sometimes embarrassing effort.
Msg #36546 Dated 21:25:15 03-08-92 36533 <--> 36566
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
A point here is that the Linking Finger Rings routine is one where you
link once and unlink once, while in a Linking Ring routine there may be
many such links and unlinks. Something done once is a miracle; done a
dozen times it is much less so.
Msg #36547 Dated 21:27:21 03-08-92 36529 <--> 36563
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
I am puzzled here; are you talking about SLEIGHT OF HAND by Edwin T.
Sachs?
Msg #36548 Dated 22:00:55 03-08-92 36535 <--> 36559
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Some time back, we had a long discussion of the dangers of putting
magnets and diskettes/computer media in the same room together. At
that time, I pointed out a few of the normal office hazzards like
magnetic paper clip holders, telephones, and even those new magnetic
"health" bracelets people wear. There are also magnetic earrings,
designed to look like those worn by people with pierced ears, magnets
on some small portable staplers, and a host of others.
Msg #36549 Dated 22:04:39 03-08-92 36538 <--> 36550
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
The Theory of False Solutions and the Impossible Theory sound like good
discussion points to me - go with it!
Msg #36550 Dated 22:05:16 03-08-92 36540 <--> 36558
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
A most interesting idea, T. A. I can certainly see your point about it
possibly not being theatrically valid. But doesn't the Copperfield
Flying illusion that you discussed a moment ago bring together both
aspects? It would seem to me that this indicates that the combination
of the Theory of False Solutions and theatrical validity can occur
together. Possible?
Msg #36554 Dated 22:19:02 03-08-92 36518 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SAY HI
Have also been making walnut wands with cherry tips at a slightly
higher price. Have a couple in the shop. Let me know. I don't
mind sending one out to let you see. I like the double wood wands
though most like the brass tips.
Msg #36557 Dated 23:21:08 03-08-92
From: MIKE KING
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: BACK FROM VEGAS
Hi there. Got back Saturday night. Did two nights in HANKY PANKY.
Went well. Geno is making a few changes and the show is improving.
Nice to work with Geno and Garuy Darwin. The rest of the cast was also
nice. Spoke with several other magicains while there. Had meetings
with two in particular and am designing some new stuff for their shows.
Will tell you more when I see you. Will try and drop by this week.
Will call before I come in. My T.V. pilot is being looked at by FOX,
so things are happening. Planning on flying back to Vegas for a
meeting with one of the above mentioned magicians later in the week.
Hope all is well with you. Give me a shyout when you get a chance.
Msg #36558 Dated 23:47:48 03-08-92 36508 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
It is old news, dude.
Msg #36559 Dated 23:47:51 03-08-92 36515 <--> 36560
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Anybody that looks at the talking head on tv news as more than
"fonts"... needs to think a little more about it...
Msg #36560 Dated 23:47:55 03-08-92 36516 <--> 36569
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Trek you very much.
Msg #36561 Dated 23:47:57 03-08-92 36521 <--> 36562
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
There are certain tricks that are especially good when all the
folks in the room know each other... and some that you don't do
under those conditions.
Msg #36562 Dated 23:48:02 03-08-92 36522 <--> 36564
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
The basics like the force the control the top change, and all
you need to ever know about coins is found in Expert Card Technique
and Bobo... I would guess about three years with those two books
would be a good start. Then the Vernon books for classic handling
of sequences. All the while you need to decide what you want to
do/get out of magic. If it is major performing then the performing
arts MUST BE STUDIED. Went to a Rock Concert last night with a
top magic performer to study actions/reactions, etc.
Msg #36563 Dated 23:48:11 03-08-92 36530 <--> 36565
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Neither ring is borrowed, but it doesn't matter. I think it is in
a Mentzer book, but not sure...
Msg #36564 Dated 23:48:15 03-08-92 36531 <--> 36571
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
I really don't think it matters too much if the audience figures
out the modus operandi. I have a client from Akron, that comes out
to lots of my jobs, in Vegas, etc. And he loves to watch magic.
So took him to see Lance, S&R and Copperfield... and Melinda...
and he nailed a few of the methods. I didn't tell him how accurate
he was... but he didn't lose interest, or respect, he felt good
about it and has become MORE A FAN... LIKES IT MORE, doesn't want
to DO ANY but wants to see magic more often.
.
Never have felt exposures (old cigarette stuff, Time articles,
etc.) have ever hurt magic. Mebbe helps by making more fans.
Msg #36565 Dated 23:48:27 03-08-92 36532 <--> 36688
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Mike Caldwell has the best sun and moon I have EVER SEEN... If I
get the chance will ask him about writing up for my second book.
Hah... got to finish the ring book first.... but taking notes on
the next one already...
Msg #36566 Dated 23:48:32 03-08-92 36533 <--> 36567
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Again, both lend to comedic situations... so that is why I would
do them. They are magical, but also can be fun.
Msg #36567 Dated 23:48:36 03-08-92 36534 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
If you read the method of mine that is it. There is a very guarded
version Al Koran gave me years ago that will be in the book.
Msg #36569 Dated 23:59:48 03-08-92 36515 <--> 36570
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
David,
I guess you're right, but it's sort of sad all the same.
When someone has the public's ear, such as a newscaster, there is
no harm unless the person doesn't know how much they don't know.
A little knowledge....
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36570 Dated 23:59:57 03-08-92 36516 <--> 36576
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Do you think they prefer techers?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36571 Dated 0:00:04 03-09-92 36522 <--> 36572
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Cy,
For the most part, I agree with what you've said about beginners
course in magic. The only bones of contention are:
1. This is assuming the magician wants to follow a road of
classic magic. I agree that a knowledge, and preferably, a
mastery of this area is necessary, but don't know that it is a
requirment for mentalism, or escapology.
2. I feel (and this is a personal view only) that VERY early on,
a magician should be encouraged to try their hand at creating
illusions. A beginning magician shouldn't be expected to come up
with extraordinary illusions, but if nothing else, this practise
teaches a respect for the work that others put into their
illusions.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36572 Dated 0:00:15 03-09-92 36523 <--> 36604
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Cy,
My father-in-law thought that Copperfield used electro-magnets.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36574 Dated 0:00:28 03-09-92 -> 36583
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: ALL
Re: MR. PETE
Does anyone know where Pete is? I'm so used to having him on
everyday.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36576 Dated 0:06:44 03-09-92 36559 <--> 36577
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Talking "fonts" - I love it, Biro-san! You sometimes have an
incredible way with words!
Msg #36577 Dated 0:07:49 03-09-92 36569 <--> 36578
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
I used to work in television news. Sooner or later, the reporters and
anchors begin to believe that they actually know something. Same is
true, of course, with print reporters. The unfortunate part is that
people do take them seriously.
Msg #36578 Dated 0:33:52 03-09-92 36577 <--> 36587
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
I think you're painting with a rather wide brush. The television news
people I have known and/or worked with range from dolts to astute
intellectuals, and every shade in between.
Msg #36583 Dated 7:18:24 03-09-92 36574 <--> 36605
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: MR. PETE
You too, huh? I just asked the same thing.
Msg #36585 Dated 8:39:51 03-09-92 36309 <--> 36638
From: MARVIN STERN
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: EMERGENCY
It's not very funny . It just fit into the topic of conversation.
Someday when we meet at the Castle.
Msg #36586 Dated 9:14:14 03-09-92 -> 36607
From: MIKE KING
To: ALL
Re: HARBIN BOOK
Does anyone have a copy of "Harbincadabra" they would like to sell?
If not, does anyone know where I might find a copy. Thanks for your
help. MIKE.
Msg #36587 Dated 9:47:01 03-09-92 36578 <--> 36606
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Indeed, in all fairness, there are a few astute individuals, but the
on-camera group includes a large dollop of dolts.
Msg #36593 Dated 11:18:36 03-09-92 35703 <--> 36594
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
A great deal of Frank's material would not be suited for anyone but
Frank, and even some of the routines that would be useable by others
are likely to suffer without Frank's unique presentation style. I
can't imagine anyone but Frank doing the Master Deck. While I have
knowledge of much of Frank's stuff, I can't recall ever even trying
to do anything except O'Henry Aces, a couple of Okito box moves, and
,of course, the infamous ring off rope move.
Msg #36594 Dated 11:18:56 03-09-92 35704 <--> 36595
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Many we did know more of Frank than we thought. Maybe he just wasn't
pretending! That is a very touching remembrance about Frank and your
son, and I am not surprised at all. I can recall a discussion or two
with him and he was a deeply principled person who cared a great deal
about people.
Msg #36595 Dated 11:19:10 03-09-92 35705 <--> 36651
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
That's enough of that crap!
...but thanks anyhow.
Msg #36596 Dated 11:19:18 03-09-92 35800 <--> 36609
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHERE WOULD WE BE
Pete - regarding your Manufacturers Only displaying at Magic
Conventions - ponder for a moment how you would define and decide
who is manufacturer only versus a dealer? Remember that there are
really no standards for determining what is a magic dealer...you
can't say MDA membership, 'cause theres dealer who aren't in MDA.
It kinda ends up being that if you have a business card or a letter-
head that says you are a dealer, then you are one. My point is there
are no criteria or standards, and if an organization says you CAN'T
DISPLAY to others for reason other than we have no space left, then
you may be liable for causing that person to lose business unless you
have some defendable criteria or standard of acceptance. Same sort
of thing can apply if you deny the right to display to someone of
the basis of an accusation they "ripped" something off. Unless you
are ready to prove such an accusation in a court, be careful as you
could be establishing the basis for a demonstrated loss because of
what could be determined to be slander.
Msg #36604 Dated 12:31:23 03-09-92 36572 <--> 36611
From: PETE BIRO
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
If he used electro-magnets, I want some.
Quiz: Reply Privately -- to ALL: How do you think Copperfield's
Flying works?
Msg #36605 Dated 12:31:27 03-09-92 36574 <--> 36640
From: PETE BIRO
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: MR. PETE
I don't know what you mean by "Where Pete Is?" I is here and been
"ON" every day... mmmmm? Or you must mean someone else, as the
Re: is to "Mr. Pete" ... are you reading ALL MESSAGES OR JUST
THOSE ADDRESSED TO YOURSELF?
Msg #36606 Dated 12:31:33 03-09-92 36576 <--> 36608
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
I am an incredible person.
Msg #36607 Dated 12:31:36 03-09-92 36586 <--> 36747
From: PETE BIRO
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: HARBIN BOOK
It is supposedly being reprinted by Magic Magazine in N.Y. again,
have you queried Charlie Randall here online? Or called Byron
Walker?
Msg #36608 Dated 12:31:40 03-09-92 36587 <--> 36612
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
I was really ticked when some gal in Oregon, I think, sued because
they fired here off the TV News because "they didn't like her
looks"... My beliefe is that the owners/directors of a TV station
are like the producer/director of a Theatrical Show... and one of
the criteria for the actor/actress hired is THEIR LOOK. If they
want to project an image the only way they can is by what the
broadcast talent LOOKS like... if it really was the LOOK, I don't
think she had a case. If there was a hidden reason not brought out
in the trial... then...????
Msg #36609 Dated 12:31:51 03-09-92 36596 <--> 36652
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: WHERE WOULD WE BE
I am ready to defend myself against slander or anything... as long
as someone tells me what it means!
.
Seriously, I know it won't work... it is only my plan for the
perfect world. If I get the chance, about 20 seconds before I die,
I will say "It is all going to be perfect now!"
Msg #36611 Dated 13:17:31 03-09-92 36604 <--> 36628
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
No need for me to reply in private - How do I think Copperfield's
Flying works? WONDERFULLY! That's how! I happen to think that the
presentation and delivery are so terrific that I don't care how it
works.
I also had the electro-magnet theory expressed to me about levitations
in general by no less than a science teacher. There are a variety of
reasons that make in generally impossible, but here's one specific to
Copperfield: He has a laptop computer backstage.
Msg #36612 Dated 13:21:01 03-09-92 36606 <--> 36613
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Yes, you do have the dubious distinction of being "incredible." I will
say, though, that during the entire time you've been on MAGIC! (which
is since it started) you have never ceased to amaze me.
Msg #36613 Dated 13:23:29 03-09-92 36608 <--> 36622
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
I too would have thought that "look" along with personality,
presentation, etc. would be supportable as job criteria in that case.
It seems to me that several years ago the Disney people won a suit in
which they dismissed a long haired male on the grounds that everyone
who worked in the park was, in effect, part of a theatrical
presentation and that his image was counter to the effect they were
attempting to achieve.
Recently, I think someone sued one of the airlines on the grounds that
they were denying her a job at the ticketing counter because she
refused to wear makeup and their policy, established by a board of
employees, required that she do so. The company had offered her
equivalent "non-public" positions, but she refused them. I believe the
airline won.
A particular "look" is, of course, an integral part of the presentation
of some magi. Would Dante's show have been the same if he had shaved?
Msg #36615 Dated 14:18:07 03-09-92
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DIVERS
MAGIC!-NL Mon 09 Mar 92 01:30
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
I will tell Lynn, may be that will make her feel better.
Actually, slowly she is starting to feel better, everything
starts falling in place. The crap one has to put up with wwhen
movingg to another
country.......
All the best.
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, 24 hours/day
(31)-23388725 (1:0/0) ---
Msg #36619 Dated 14:37:07 03-09-92 36333 <--> 36731
From: SCOTT ALCALAY
To: RICK KITAMURA (X)
Re: SCANNER
great!
Msg #36620 Dated 14:38:08 03-09-92 36329 <-
From: SCOTT ALCALAY
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: WOMEN
Maybe their too busy performing on the road to waste valuble business
day time conversing to a bunch of other magicians.
Msg #36622 Dated 16:06:17 03-09-92 36608 <--> 36629
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
That reminds me of this story I saw on CNN -- this beauty pagaent
contestent who was filing some kind of complaint. She was charging
that the beauty contest objectified her for her body, and made her feel
like a piece of meat.
Msg #36628 Dated 18:49:37 03-09-92 36611 <--> 36644
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
I know. wish he would Reply once in a while, or ask some questions.
My MAC is here (er at work, and manana will be installed, etc.)
Yargh?
Msg #36629 Dated 18:49:42 03-09-92 36612 <--> 36630
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Amazing, yes, wonderful no. A4rgh... now am just being silly.
Msg #36630 Dated 18:49:44 03-09-92 36622 <--> 36636
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
I would say that only the fleshy parts of ones body would feel like
meat. What the heck was she doing in a Beauty Pagaent anyway if
she has that kind of attitude. I have found that most of the ladies
that enter these pagaents are in it for "Exposure" to be seen, and
maybe become the next Vana White or Vanessa Williams. Williams
has just had a record album go Gold and it is on the way to
Platinum... so she certainly had some talent to go along with it,
and am sure she "used" the pagaent and its inherant publicity to
get her foot (and body) into many a door.
.
If a woman doesn't feel that pagaents are her cup of tea, then
they should stay away... just like a guy that has the same feelings,
on various areas... let those that care go play.
.
Like the craze for hiring strippers for parties... women hire
women to undress in front of thier Man... at a birthday, etc. which
I think is dumb, sorry. We had a guy in our press room once, so
honored and I was very upset with the folks that did the hiring,
for a couple of reasons. We have kids in our press room, I was in
charge and nobody checked with me if it was OK. Under those
conditions (and it was a workplace) I would have said, "No, not
here, but if you have a private spot that won't offend OTHERS, go
ahead".
.
Now about the Himber ring....
Msg #36636 Dated 19:36:51 03-09-92 36577 <--> 36645
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
The majority of people assume that if they've seen it on the
news, it must be true. It's sort of analogous to what Neil Simon
said in "Buluxi Blues."
He was talking about being careful what you write. People will
assume that if you took the time to write it down, it must be the
truth.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36638 Dated 19:37:13 03-09-92 36585 <--> 36730
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: EMERGENCY
Marvin,
I know many jokes like that. I'm reminded of the joke, somehow
mention it, have to fight not to tell it, explaining that it's a
dumb joke, finally coaxed into telling it, to see blank stares at
the punch-line.
I'll look forward to hearing it at the Castle.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36640 Dated 19:37:35 03-09-92 36605 <--> 36681
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MR. PETE
Pete,
Yes, I mean you. I read all messages that aren't private, just
hadn't noticed your moniker for a couple of days. Frankly, I was
a little worried. I'm so used to having several messages from
you when I log on, that I thought it strange not to see much of
you here.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36643 Dated 19:47:55 03-09-92 -> 36675
From: MARVIN STERN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BACK
Glad to see you're back on the board. Now that the honeymoon is over,
you finally have time for other things.
Written anything good now-a days?
Msg #36644 Dated 20:13:59 03-09-92 36628 <--> 36682
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Don't worry, Pete - another few months and your colleagues will drag
you off to the MacWorld expo. After that, you won't be able to spell
IBM -- or CAT or DOG or any other big words.
Msg #36645 Dated 20:15:09 03-09-92 36629 <--> 36647
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
RE: Amazing vs. Wonderful
Once someone called me a "model lecturer." I felt great for about a
week and told everyone about it. Then my wife insisted I look up
"model" in the dictionary - it means "a small replica of the real
thing."
Msg #36647 Dated 20:18:20 03-09-92 36636 <--> 36650
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Often, the people are more astute than politicians, newscasters, etc.
give them credit for. But the format, style and presentation of the
"news," along with the "tabloid" shows, does lend them a certain
credibility that is hard to overcome.
I guess that in some sense, some of the discussion we have had
regarding the presentation of magic is related - we are trying to set
a scene in which magic exists.
Msg #36650 Dated 20:27:22 03-09-92 36537 <--> 36653
From: CY KELLER
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
The programmer's name was Grace Hopper. She retired from the navy
as an admiral.
Msg #36651 Dated 20:27:29 03-09-92 36593 <--> 36722
From: CY KELLER
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
You're up on mew Bill. I don't think I use any of Frank's
material professionally. I do the O'Henry in lectures, but I
think that's about it. Wasn't interested in doing the Master Deck
when Frank was alive. Could probably do it with a lot of changes.
The whole thing was a kind of con.
.
Frank's notes are swimming around somewhere. Don't know who has
the Master Deck.
Msg #36652 Dated 20:27:41 03-09-92 36596 <--> 36910
From: CY KELLER
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: WHERE WOULD WE BE
My thoughts are as follows. Dealers can show everyrhing that they
have original. For example a publisher could show books, Myer
Yedid and John Kennedy could show their items. These things would
be off limits for any other dealer. This would be fair to the
original owner of the effect as it would protect the investment.
It would be like having only onew person perform the same effect
on a show. This would be the criteria and standard of
acceptance. This is only a start. Like to hear other thoughts.
Msg #36653 Dated 20:27:53 03-09-92 36608 <--> 36655
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Right on with Ms Kraft (I think). An employer should be able to
define acceptable appearance. However if a different standard is
used for others, you have a case.
Msg #36655 Dated 20:32:17 03-09-92 36650 <--> 36673
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Yep, Cy, Grace Hooper! A great lady and a great contributor to the
field of computing. I won't even ask why you sent the message to
yourself.
Msg #36664 Dated 21:23:48 03-09-92 -> 36666
From: SCOTT MILLER
To: ALL
Re: TODD ROBBINS
Well I was up at the zCastle last night and I got the chance to see
Todd Robbins I wish that I would have see him earlyer in the week so
this would not be after the fact but.....his act was one of the best
things that I have see at the castle in a long time ( by my
standards) he warned the audience that he would be doing some strange
things by lighting a cig then charring his hand very slowly with the
lighter then putting the cigarette out on his tongue then waited a full
min. just sitting there for anyone "weak of heart" to leave if they
wanted to no one did and he gave them the ride of there lives doing
things like eating glass from a light bulb, sticking his hand in a
animal trap pounding a 20 penny nail up his nose and for a grand finale
blowing up a hot water bottle till it burst WOW! what a show!!!!
Its good to see that more people out there are trying to bring the art
back into the art of magic, and not just doing the same old boaring
tricks that so many have done before!
If you ever see the name go see his show if you dare!! he he he
Steelfyre
(****[===================>
"Enigmatist"
Msg #36666 Dated 22:21:16 03-09-92 36664 <--> 36676
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: SCOTT MILLER (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
Well, it certainly sounds like Todd Robbins used everyday items!
Thanks for the report!
Msg #36667 Dated 22:22:03 03-09-92 -> 36691
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MESSAGES
Uh, Jerry -
I just sent message, uh, 36-"666" - am I gonna have to start with the
candles all over again?
Msg #36673 Dated 23:25:47 03-09-92 36630 <--> 36679
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
I _knew_ that would get you going!
Msg #36675 Dated 23:27:02 03-09-92 36643 <--> 36684
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: BACK
Actually, the reason you haven't heard from me much is that I've been
writing furiously. Still writing furiously, but know I'm feeling the
need to reach out and touch -- you know. How have you been?
Msg #36676 Dated 23:29:41 03-09-92 36664 <--> 36685
From: EVAN KATZ
To: SCOTT MILLER (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
It sounds like mistakes in his act have a far greater potential for
disaster than flashing a doublebacker.
Msg #36679 Dated 0:23:27 03-10-92 36636 <--> 36687
From: PETE BIRO
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Everything I have ever written down is not only true but is the
ultimate... right? Right? No? Why not? ARgh...
Msg #36681 Dated 0:23:34 03-10-92 36640 <--> 36960
From: PETE BIRO
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: MR. PETE
I will use my new nom de plume... Bond, James Bond. Every time
he said it on TV the other night he was next in bed and not asleep.
Msg #36682 Dated 0:23:38 03-10-92 36644 <--> 36689
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
No way Jose... no MACWOILD FOR ME... only gonna use it for
Microsoft Word.
Msg #36684 Dated 0:24:01 03-10-92 36675 <--> 36695
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BACK
Is "furiously" the name of the show? Or what? Where do you get your
stuff used?
Msg #36685 Dated 0:24:05 03-10-92 36676 <--> 36757
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
Putting the hand in the animal trap is a stock item, I have done
it for years. I don't like to put the nail in the nose, but any
Dr. will explain it is OK and easy to do... argh... Rudy Coby does
a version in his close up act.
.
Abbott sells "the daring spring trap" a fine item and one that if
you play "lightly" can be quite funny. You "accidentally" put your
hand in after warning them not too ... you chop up pencils or
carrotts, etc.
.
To bed.
Msg #36686 Dated 0:41:32 03-10-92 36503 <--> 36708
From: JERRY BURTON
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
They will happily let you double down on anything you want, and give
you one card. Smart play says only double down on 10 or 11. Always
on 11, only on 10 if dealer shows a 4, 5 or 6 up.
.
That's what I remember from the Thorpe book I read years ago. I
don't play blackjack at all anymore, I'm a poker addict.
.
Tabby is the resident Pro, he may have better info than mine.
Msg #36687 Dated 0:41:36 03-10-92 36537 <--> 36709
From: JERRY BURTON
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
OK if it was a woman, that would have been Grace Hopper. And a moth
sounds better than a roach. She was the oldest active officer in the
navy, until she retired in her early 70's.
.
Admiral Hopper was certainly a major contributor to computing
throughout her long career. She passed away just a few months ago.
Msg #36688 Dated 0:41:40 03-10-92 36563 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Ben Harris from Australia has a linking ring routine, is that what
you are thinking of ?
Msg #36689 Dated 0:41:43 03-10-92 36611 <--> 36710
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
I don't know and don't want to, I just want to see it again !
When I see something that strong I don't want to know the
mechanics of how he is doing it.
.
I do wish he would change the lead-in to a more positive image of
man's attempts at flying like a bird.
.
This is a primary example of what modern magic is all about. No
one seriously believes he is tapping into some 'unknown' force
to defy gravity. It isn't presented in that light, it's more of
"If I could REALLY fly this is what it would look like". You
would not be able to tell HOW it is done, or for that matter
really care. Just view it and enjoy !
Msg #36691 Dated 0:41:50 03-10-92 36667 <--> 36693
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MESSAGES
That's not a good sign David, see what happens in the next few days.
Msg #36693 Dated 0:46:51 03-10-92 36691 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MESSAGES
OK, will keep my ear to the ground, or, at least, my eye on the screen.
But I do figure that on a magic system it might be OK.
Msg #36701 Dated 6:00:32 03-10-92 -> 36712
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: AUCTION
The auction sure was great. There are some good guys there in Austin.
Any idea how much was sold?
Charlie
Msg #36702 Dated 6:01:02 03-10-92
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: DENNIS PIERCE (X)
Re: BOOKS
Dennis, the lastest list is here on the board, it is list #4. We
should be releasing a new list soon, as we are about to buy a new
library. So be on the lookout for list #5. And since you've made an
order you'll be on the mailling. Thanks.
Charlie
Msg #36703 Dated 6:01:29 03-10-92
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BOOKS
Tabby, have put the books a side for you. Will talk to you soon. What
day do you arrive for the DMS?
Charlie
Msg #36708 Dated 7:49:51 03-10-92 36686 <--> 36717
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
Leave a message for Geno, maybe he will loan you his body mounted
micro-computer to count the cards... or the new system with a
fibre optic mount under the table that can see the dealer's hole
card thru the fabric... would take a day or two and maybe $50,000
payoff money to set...
Msg #36709 Dated 7:49:57 03-10-92 36687 <--> 36735
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
You guys are 'BUGGIN' us with computer talk... heheh
Msg #36710 Dated 7:50:00 03-10-92 36689 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Good reply, the kind I was hoping for!
Msg #36712 Dated 7:50:17 03-10-92 36701 <--> 36893
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: AUCTION
Mike King, online, is looking for a Harbincadabra... any clues?
Msg #36717 Dated 8:47:21 03-10-92 36686 <--> 36784
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
The info in Thorpe's _Beat The Dealer_ is somewhat outdated but
the basic strategy is still pretty right on. With the advent of
six and eight deck games the rules ahve changed somewhat and
some type of counting or tracking cards is in order to win plus
some type of money management plan. I would not normally double
down against an ace. A simple counting system I sometimes use
is just knowing that the ten value cards make up about 1/3 of the
deck. A quick glance of the table will show you whether the tens
are "due" or not.
Msg #36722 Dated 12:10:11 03-10-92 35976 <--> 36723
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
You mean the first time you went into Flosso's, he didn't stop you
from leaving with a "Hey Kid!, Whadda ya want?" I can remember Al
waiting on kid customers. Although he was gruff, the advice was
always right on the money and he never sold them something they
couldn't use. I can still remember him saying, "Naw kid, that ain't
for you!"
Msg #36723 Dated 12:10:29 03-10-92 35978 <--> 36725
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Good...from reading your message, I got the impression that you had
not had a chance to see Frank work while he was out on the coast. I
am glad that you, in fact, DID get to see him work.
Msg #36725 Dated 12:10:58 03-10-92 35980 <--> 36726
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
I remember the factoid re Andrew Lloyd Weber and his office in Soho
in same loco as Ken. My first visit to Ken Brooke's was one of the
great experiences of my magic life. It was a complete surprise! I
was roaming around London and just happened upon it while walking
down the street. After going in and meeting Ken, I thought I had
died and gone to magic heaven or something. One of the great high
lights was Ken telling me where to go buy the proper pan to make
Yorkshire Pud. I still have and use the pan. Of course, I revisited
every thing I was back in London.
Msg #36726 Dated 12:11:21 03-10-92 35983 <--> 36728
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
I grew up in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia where local magic
shops simply do not exist. A magic set at Christmas and the famous
10 cent Douglas Magicland catalog were my earliest start in magic. A
visit to my elementary school by J.B. Bobo and helping him carry his
props to his car was the next major step. He told me the address of
Kanter's in Philadelphia. My "visits" to the magic shops were via
the mail. I saved my pennies and mailed them off after reading those
marvelous ads in the catalogs. I waited with dreams of delivery
trucks pulling up to unload the great miracles I had ordered. Some-
how I survived the fact that everything always came in a tiny little
box and looked NOTHING like the drawings in the ad. In fact, most of
it looked like junk!
Finally, in 1957 I was lucky enough to get to go to the Boy Scout
Jamboree at Valley Forge (BTW, my largest live audience - I performed
for 60,000 while there). When our group went into Philadelphia to
see the Liberty Bell, I broke off on my own to go see Kanter's and
all those photos of famous magicians (remember the catalogs?). That
was a great memory as was the stop off at Jack Chanin's before I
rejoined my troop to ride the train back to Valley Forge. It was
years later before I ever saw the Liberty Bell.
Msg #36728 Dated 12:12:26 03-10-92 36009 <--> 36729
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Sheets would be be just about impossible to put into print. Frank
certainly was as well. His Okito stuff might have translated to
the written word better than some of his other material. I wonder
if anyone ever filmed Frank or prehaps video taped him while he was
out on the coast.
Msg #36729 Dated 12:12:40 03-10-92 36010 <--> 36733
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Every so often I would take off a day and drive up to Baltimore to
visit Phil. In exchange for organizing the stuff I found in them, he
would let me go through those drawers behind the counter and also the
boxes in the "upper back room". Phil had no idea what he had and
didn't have in that shop. I would find treasurers of yesterday
buried in the back of boxes. Of course, I got first rights at any
thing he was willing to sell. Only having two arms, I couldn't
afford most of Phil's prices, but I was able to end up with some nice
coins, pocket knives and other small items. However, I must say that
one of the great memories of any of my Baltimore visits to the Yogi
Magic Mart was being introduced by you to the proper method of eating
a Maryland Crab Cake with a soda cracker. That was REAL magic!
Msg #36730 Dated 12:13:10 03-10-92 36019 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: EMERGENCY
I don't know if they were potty trained or not, but I have certainly
known quite a few magi who didn't have a pot to p--- in!
Msg #36731 Dated 12:13:19 03-10-92 36082 <--> 36751
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SCANNER
wait until they try to boot up the system and load in the board with
a gavel!
Msg #36732 Dated 12:13:26 03-10-92 36155 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: COOPERFIELD BIG FINISH
Stacey...
Actually, the Washington Monument sits directly under restricted
air space! It is the Potomac River that sits directly under both
the northern and southern approaches to National Airport. A better
biggy for David might be to see if he could escape from the inner
inner circle of the Pentagon! An even better feat would be to see
if he could get congress to approve an annual budget on time!
Msg #36733 Dated 12:13:45 03-10-92 36237 <--> 36739
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
After once riding to New York with Jeff doing impressions most of the
way, I can just imagine the sounds on a tape that had not only Jeff
but also Frank. Anyone listening would probably think it an alien
transmission were it not for you being there.
Msg #36735 Dated 12:14:47 03-10-92 36336 <--> 36955
From: BILL WELLS
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Yes, Norton did have a virus checker specifically for Michelangelo
and everyone might be interested to know that they distributed it
free of charge to all government agencies. I would also agree that
the threat was grossly exaggerated.
Msg #36736 Dated 12:15:00 03-10-92 36406 <--> 36752
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: AUSTRALIA
Speak for yourself! I happen to enjoy Ms Mackenzie and Mr. Biro's
gratuitous use of vulgarity!!!
Msg #36737 Dated 12:15:08 03-10-92 36462 <--> 36744
From: BILL WELLS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: YOWSUH!
Tabby...somebody in N'ville does have a big magic library, or at
least he used to...David Price! He might not have a lot of modern
stuff, but I think he has a healty collection of the older stuff.
Msg #36739 Dated 12:48:47 03-10-92 36723 <--> 36741
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Yep saw Frank work, got a book with his pic on it (a replica of
the Faro Player)... think saw him at Abbott's too. Along with
another of the all time unknown greats... OK CY, BILL, ETC. HERE
IS A NEW NAME TO WORK WITH... BOB STENSEL (STENCIL) (STENCEL)...
.
Who, I understand was the real creator of the chop cup routine
with the Silk to hide the load, mostly credited to Larry Jennings
and/or Ron Wilson... haha... MORE KNOWLEDGE to play with...
Msg #36741 Dated 12:49:00 03-10-92 36725 <--> 36742
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
I have picture of Ken eating Yorkshire Pudding....
Msg #36742 Dated 12:49:03 03-10-92 36729 <--> 36743
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Good message until you got to the Crab Food part... arhg... Uh,
I used to do the same thing at Lloyd Jones' sorting props in the
back room and chicken coop. Byron was there at same time sorting
the books. He was smarter than I was. I had first dibs on the
Library and the $30K buy was really worth a Million!!!! Arghdfoeudjf
Msg #36743 Dated 12:49:10 03-10-92 36733 <--> 36749
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Altman? hah... great comic... top guy... got to call him... We
should get Jeff for IBM comedy club!!! Why din't I tink of dat befo.
Msg #36744 Dated 12:49:13 03-10-92 36737 <--> 36995
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: YOWSUH!
Price showed me a lot of stuff, but not time to see his library
in the adjoining room... next time.
Msg #36745 Dated 12:49:21 03-10-92
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ERROR MSG
An error crept in. A message was just posted to you when it was meant
for Bill Wells... I G
do not know where the message I wote to you went... but disregard, as
the same stuff was just faxed to you. Later, dude...
Msg #36747 Dated 13:48:36 03-10-92 36607 <-
From: MIKE KING
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HARBIN BOOK
Thanks, Pete. Spoke with Frank Martineau. He says "HI". Will try the
mentioned names to help me locate this book. Hope all is well with you
and yours. MIKE.
Msg #36749 Dated 15:21:15 03-10-92 36726 <--> 36824
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
This is bringing back a lot of memories, Bill. Things that were
dormant in my archival storage until we began to poke and prod them.
I think that my first real exposure to magic was probably when I was
about six or seven years old and saw a kid's magician (whose name I
unfortunately don't remember) in a Catskill Mountains resort. I
remember that he did balloon animals and trees from rolled up
newspapers and, while I don't remember the rest of his act, it
definitely awed me.
Then I began the visits to the magic shop and the library, performing
for all of the friends I could round up - sometimes my associate
(another aspiring magician of around 8 or 9) and I would charge the
other kids for shows. I think prices ran from one-cent to a nickel
(getting a nickel out of the other kids was tough!).
Our local library wasn't big on magic, particularly in the children's
section, so when I was about 10 or 11 I started into the adult section
and discovered Scarne (his books were most of what they had). I
devoured the books and for several years was never without a deck of
cards, trying to teach myself sleights and flourishes.
My Boy Scout experiences were of no help whatsoever. I was in one of
the worst Troops in existence! We hardly ever did anything and there
was no incentive to move up. In four years we went on only one five
mile hike that I remember, a couple of overnight camp-outs, and I did
get to Scout Camp once for two weeks. I'm not sure I even ever made
Second Class.
Msg #36751 Dated 15:39:37 03-10-92 36731 <--> 36961
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SCANNER
Biro has given me an idea - at the DMS MAGIC! Session I may just put
the role of Sysop up for grabs!
Msg #36752 Dated 15:43:22 03-10-92 36736 <--> 36786
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: AUSTRALIA
AAARRRGGGHHH!!! (tttmmm --- BBBiiirrrooo) -- Another country heard
from! There are plenty of vulgar places for y'all to hang out together
and, on occassion, I might even join you. I just don't think MAGIC! is
that place.
Msg #36757 Dated 20:00:10 03-10-92 36676 <--> 36822
From: SCOTT MILLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
yeah you can say that again!! but isnt that what art is all about being
differnt, and living life on the edge hehehehe!
Steelfyre
Msg #36759 Dated 20:22:02 03-10-92 -> 36871
From: STEVE BRYANT
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
The Thorp basic strategy is to double down on hard 11
against anything, on hard 10 against anything but a 10
or ace, and on hard 9 against 2-6. Soft double down
A,2 through A,7 against various combinations of dealer
showing 2 through 6. So far so good. But the thing
gets mindboggling when the complete point count comes
into play. Not only do your wagers change, but your
strategy does also. Perhaps the easiest "system" is
to sit next to a good counter (Tabby?) and up your bets
when he does, sticking close to the basic strategy.
Probably money to be made giving classes in this stuff.
My REAL strategy for this trip is to have my mom show
me that lucky slot machine she knows.
Msg #36760 Dated 20:22:39 03-10-92 -> 36790
From: STEVE BRYANT
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Hate to get started on stooges. Surely you guys put
that one to bed before I ever discovered this BBS. In
general, I don't like them when they are used to
"prove" what a miracle worker one is. As someone once
wrote, at least one guy in the audience knows you're
not so hot. Taking the other side, Scott Davis
reminded me that they are used effectively in such
shows as at Sea World and at the Indiana Jones Stunt
Show at Disney MGM, etc. A supposed audience member is
lured up to face Shamu or whatever and winds up being
part of the show. Audience at large eats it up whether
or not they ever figure out the guy is a stooge.
Sometimes there is no other way. Have used them
effectively myself for the Bob Blau finale to the
Spirit Cabinet and for your excellent "Chronomadic"
seance item from GRYMWYR. The only absolute rule is
that anything goes if you have a national TV special,
and the TV audience clearly doesn't care.
Msg #36764 Dated 21:03:19 03-10-92 -> 36773
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: ALL
Re: FARES TO SLC
Believe it or not, the fares to SLC actually went down over the weekend
and I had to change a bunch of tickets. This will probably appear as
a blatant plug, but I am interested in saving all of my beloved
magicians some extra money. MTN (that's me) renegotiated the contracts
and the $100 off coupon in MAGIC magazine (look for the April issue, if
you didn't get one in January) is now worth $110 off Continental and
TWA and $120 off America West flights of $350 or more. Under $300 and
we can get $60 and $70 respectively. Tired of Hawaii? You can go from
LAX to Fiji for $498 roundtrip. Fiji is terrific, especially because
tipping is NOT permitted on the island, so you don't have someone
standing there with outstretched palm every time you turn around.
Europe is cheap now too. LAX to London, Paris, Frankfurt and Rome is
going for $480 roundtrip. I mean, is this GOOD, or what? And these
are PUBLISHED fares - I don't have to do anything to get these (except
know where to find them, which I do!). If you want to take advantage
of any of these, give me a holler 1-800-748-5520.
Stace
Msg #36773 Dated 22:06:22 03-10-92 36764 <--> 36795
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: FARES TO SLC
ARGH! (tm - Biro) - With prices that good, I wish I could go somewhere!
Thanks for the info, Stacey!
Msg #36776 Dated 23:03:11 03-10-92 36064 <--> 36796
From: FRANK ZAK
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: GOINGS ON
YOu don't weigh as much as me. See you in Vegas at the DMS. When do you
come in?
Msg #36778 Dated 23:06:40 03-10-92 36076 <--> 36779
From: FRANK ZAK
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: SONG LYRICS
I am. However, I don
don't know where to put it. Some computer whiz I am.
Msg #36779 Dated 23:07:55 03-10-92 36095 <-
From: FRANK ZAK
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: SONG LYRICS
I'll call when I get a chance. My # is 367-3828. I'm always looking for
help.
Msg #36781 Dated 23:10:22 03-10-92 36492 <--> 36797
From: FRANK ZAK
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: VACATION
I apoligize. I got running around with Bill Okal. every time we got
back to his house I crashed. I'm not used to the exercise or the fresh
air. Will you be in Vegas for the DMS? I'll apoligize in person.
Msg #36784 Dated 23:12:23 03-10-92 36717 <--> 36823
From: JERRY BURTON
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
Doubling down against an ace is indeed iffy. I havn't really followed
BJ is quite a few years.
Msg #36786 Dated 23:12:32 03-10-92 36752 <--> 36798
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: AUSTRALIA
What vulgarity ?? Did I miss sumthin'
Msg #36790 Dated 23:30:08 03-10-92 36760 <--> 36831
From: T A WATERS
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
In general I have no problem with stooges -- it is true, however, that
sometimes they are more trouble than they'r worth. Also, as I
mentioned before, in mentalism you have to make it very clear that you
are NOT using stooges, or it's a waste of time.
My cockles are duly warmed to hear that you're using CHRONOMADIC; the
only other person I know of that does it is Ed Fowler (E.Raymond
Carlyle).
Msg #36792 Dated 0:08:04 03-11-92 -> 36794
From: MANNY WELTMAN
To: ALL
Re: CHEVALIER PINETTI
Can anyone tell me what years Pinetti lived? I think it was some time
after Cagliostro.
Msg #36793 Dated 0:07:44 03-11-92 -> 36799
From: FRANK ZAK
To: ALL
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
Here is the scenerio. You are calling on a client. You can only do I
trick. If he likes the effect you get the job. What trick do you do? If
it's an impromptu trick, which one is it? How about if you do stage or
platform work. I am interested in the answers.
Myself, I will do one of 3 effects. Bro. Hammans two card
transposition, Eddie Fechters, Be honest, what is it. Or, Card to
wallet.
Let's hear it folks, what do you do?
Msg #36794 Dated 2:12:40 03-11-92 36792 <--> 36800
From: MAX MAVEN
To: MANNY WELTMAN (X)
Re: CHEVALIER PINETTI
1750-1800
Msg #36795 Dated 7:47:37 03-11-92 36773 <--> 36805
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: FARES TO SLC
Its like the dude that found FOUR different products for his car
to improve his gas mileage... found if he used them all he had
to drain the tank every 300 miles. Argh?
Msg #36796 Dated 7:47:42 03-11-92 36776 <--> 36877
From: PETE BIRO
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: GOINGS ON
I be in Vegas mid mornin on Thursday... I gots to conduct a meeting
for the entries...
Msg #36797 Dated 7:47:46 03-11-92 36781 <--> 36879
From: PETE BIRO
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: VACATION
You are in real trouble hangin' with OKAL!!!!
Msg #36798 Dated 7:47:49 03-11-92 36786 <--> 36872
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: AUSTRALIA
References to T and A (and not meaning a fella that wrote an
encyclopedic reference, which I understand is available at the
Gambler's Book Club - where I will go first - in Las Vegas)...
Oh, you Black Jack dudes here online... go by there for the latest
and the greatest books on the game - and other stuff. A wonderful
place.
Msg #36799 Dated 7:47:56 03-11-92 36793 <--> 36804
From: PETE BIRO
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
Well, the best example of ONE TRICK... that I know of was done by
my pal Karrell Fox. Sit down, relax, it ain't a short story!
.
Fox was putting a pitch together for the Detroit Auto show... and
he figured a BIG TIME PRODUCTION WAS THE WAY TO GO... LOTSA MONEY.
.
His plan was so big he figured the ONLY guy with the authority to
OK it was Henry Ford II himself. AKA "The Duece"...
.
He and his manager worked a long time trying to get an appointment.
It isn't easy... finally they were "allowed about six minutes in
front of THE MAN".
.
Agent said to Karrell, "are you going to have time to do a trick?"
Fox said, "Don't worry, I will work something out!"
.
They arrive at Ford HQ. The moment arrives.
.
They go in. Fox quickly runs thru the scenario for the show, etc.
.
Then says, "We have a minute Mr. Ford, may I do a trick for you?"
.
Fox has the guy take a card. Goes through two or three revelations
but keeps missing... fumbling... blows it. Agent is going nuts.
The biggest deal of their lives and Fox has lost the card.
.
So... Karrell apologises and then says, "By the way Mr. Ford, we
still have a minute or two of our appointment left, I understand
your hobby is GARDENING and you have a wonderful garden here out
on your office patio... is that correct?" "Yup", said the Deuce.
.
He opened the sliding door and they stepped out on the patio.
.
A few moments looking at the exotic flowers, etc. and FOX SUDDENLY
EXCLAIMED.... "LOOK, LOOK UP THERE, SIR!"
.
Just then, at the precise moment an airplane is flying by, a
SKY WRITER... SMOKE MESSAGE IN SKY....
.
3 OF CLUBS
.
The Duece turned to Fox and said, "YOU GOT THE JOB!"
.
Anybody out there top that???? Huh????
.
Needless to say the Agent's heart started up again.
Msg #36800 Dated 7:48:40 03-11-92 36794 <--> 36810
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: CHEVALIER PINETTI
Any indication that Pinetti did the dreaded Linking Rings?
Msg #36804 Dated 9:27:16 03-11-92 36799 <--> 36811
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
Now THAT is the way to do a card trick!
Msg #36805 Dated 9:28:07 03-11-92 36795 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: FARES TO SLC
Yeah, or it is like the stations that have gas for 89.9, only they're
closed.
Msg #36807 Dated 13:15:23 03-11-92 -> 36809
From: JIM SISTI
To: ALL
Re: HELP!
A magician's nightmare! I went out to my van this morning to find that
someone had broken into it and took my tape deck and every prop
that I own. My close-up stuff was in one attache case and my kids'
show was in another suitcase. All bye-bye! Anyone have any used props
for sale...cheap? And this after we closed on a new house last week...
Msg #36809 Dated 13:48:58 03-11-92 36807 <--> 36812
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: HELP!
Oh, damn! Sorry to hear about the break in, Jim. One thing you might
do if any of it is unique or "traceable" is to post a list of such
items here and submit it to the magic magazines as well. Someone might
spot one or more items somewhere and it could lead to some possible
recovery.
Also, maybe post a list of some of the items you need on here. Either
someone might be able to sell or loan you some stuff to get you back to
work.
Msg #36810 Dated 17:05:25 03-11-92 36794 <-
From: MANNY WELTMAN
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: CHEVALIER PINETTI
Thanks Max. Let me know if ever I can supply you with any info., be
happy to do so.
Msg #36811 Dated 17:49:00 03-11-92 36799 <--> 36813
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
Actually, the card was the two of hearts.
Msg #36812 Dated 18:35:20 03-11-92 36807 <--> 36818
From: PETE BIRO
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: HELP!
What kinda stuff you looking for? I have a zig zag I don't use,
but doubt if I want to part with it.
Msg #36813 Dated 18:35:23 03-11-92 36811 <--> 36833
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
I had forgotten the card, and just guess at the 3 of Clubs as it
was very short (clubs)... still a great idea of the Foxy One.
Msg #36815 Dated 19:02:01 03-11-92 -> 36817
From: TABBY CRABB
To: ALL
Re: CAN'T STOP NOW - MCCMS 19
n
As promised, the Music City Conclave and Magicians' Symposium
will be an annual event and plans are being made now to insure
that the 1993 event is even better than last years event. I
think we got off the well beaten path during the 1992 Symposium
and I liked it. I think that we'll continue to head up the
road less traveled in the years to come.
.
Magic Menu is getting more involved with the Conclave and I
really appreciate Jim offering his help (Jim, what can I send you
for your act - need a table???). Our focus as always is on table,
hand and mind magic; working at magic, using magic; living it. It
is a workable passion!
.
These guys have promised to be at the Music City Conclave
and Magicians' Symposium to perform, lecture, sympose and hang out
January 8,9,10, 1993 in Nashville (location to be determined but
probably the same place one more year):
.
I am as proud of this 1993 lineup as I am of the 1992 lineup. This
will be good.!!!
.
PETE BIRO
EUGENE BURGER
MICHAEL CLOSE
KENT CUMMINS
JAY INGLEE
RAY MERTZ
JIM SISTI
T.A. WATERS
.
There will be a more relaxed schedule next year, plus there may
be a special event on the night before. I have mixed feeling
about the BRUNCH (but was my fave part) and haven't made a
decision yet. I have determined that the ticket price must be
raised to 75 in advance and 90 at the door plus we will have to
make a major push to sell it out this year (125) in advance.
.
Sooooo, thanks Kevin E Curtin for being the first person to sign
up for the 1993 event and for you guys who wrote in and said
thanks for doing 1992. That's really why I do it, but we gotta
sell tickets to grease the wheels.
.
H & R Books is helping us plan an event based around the
literature of the craft; especially books, and book collectors
are being invited to participate even more next year.
.
If you're not on my mailing list and want to be please send me
your address in a message and I'll add your name. You
will get occasional mail.
.
The shop is basically up and running now, so if I owe you a prop
or a table it will be coming along shortly. Sorry for the delay,
it has been unavoidable.
.
Anyway, keep your cards trimmed, your fingers greasy and ALWAYS
CUT THE DECK!!!!!
Msg #36817 Dated 19:33:54 03-11-92 36815 <--> 36854
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CAN'T STOP NOW - MCCMS 19
WOW! The 1993 MCCM is gonna be a KILLER! What a line-up! Sure hope
I can find a way to get there.
Msg #36818 Dated 19:34:14 03-11-92 36807 <--> 36835
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: HELP!
Hi, Jim!
Give me your address and I'll send you some of my extra stuff. I'll
also bring it up at my ring meeting Monday night and see what we have
or what we can get together for you. If you want, you can call me at
1-800-748-5520 during the day and give me your address and phone. I'm
in San Diego, so call 9-5 Pacific time.
Stacey
Msg #36822 Dated 20:30:12 03-11-92 36664 <--> 36967
From: CY KELLER
To: SCOTT MILLER (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
I'm wondering what your "standards" are if this is the best in a
while. This is as far removed from entertainment as the National
Enquirer is from journalism. Maybe we should have a room at the
Castle devoted to Fat Ladies and men with three legs. I used to
see these things a kid but I think my taste has improved.
Msg #36823 Dated 20:30:22 03-11-92 36686 <--> 36875
From: CY KELLER
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
The Thorpe book was the standard for many years. I don't know why
we don't turn to one of our own, Darwin Ortiz. Darwin has been
writing about gambling for many years and in prpbably the BEST.
He uses some of the Thorpe computer data but comes up with the
following on doubling.
.
The following is four deck strategy for hard hands.
Always double on 11 except against an ace.
Always double on ten except against ten or ace.
Double on 9 against 3 to 6.
.
The following is for soft hands.
Double on soft 17 or 18 against 3 to 6.
Double on soft 15 or 16 against 4 to 6.
Double on soft 13 or 14 against 5 or 6.
.
Obviously if you are card counting these might change some. I
hope this is in time for you all to win at DMS. Since Tabbly is
so highly rated, you might sit to his left and see what you can
learn.
Msg #36824 Dated 20:30:46 03-11-92 36726 <--> 36825
From: CY KELLER
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Never forget my first visit to Kanter's with Hen Fetsch driving.
We met Jack Gwynne and I spent a lot of time admiring the photos
on the walls. This must have been in the 40's. Mike called Bill
Frazee out of the back to stop his packing for mailing. He
performed a very simple version of the McDonald Aces. The first
time I had seen it and was fooled. The routine was similar to one
later published by Orville Meyer in one of his books.
.
Used to see Chanin at the MAES conventions. This was in the 40's
also. He wore an ear-ring and had a gong to bring a crowd to his
dealer's table. Always fooled everyone - very clever stuff. You
would by this marvel and wind up with a safety pin and a bit of
string. The instructions were in that purple printing they used
to have where you typed on somem kind of mat. The instructyions
were in some crypto Ukraine/english. If you spent time with him
he would give what was a private lesson. Yes, the pina and the
string were exacly what he used.
.
Jack is one of the people usually overlooked when we start
thinking of the masters. Sleeving and Three Shell Game would not
be anywhere without his seminal thinking.
Msg #36825 Dated 20:31:11 03-11-92 36728 <--> 36826
From: CY KELLER
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Sheets and Frank Thompson would be possible to put into print. Of
course, no one would believe the descriptions to be true. Maybe
Lovecraft could do them justice. Every time I see Bob Sheets, I'm
more convinced that he is the best going - close-up or platform.
He understands quality magic and performs it well. On top of this
is the wild personality. People that funny are not usuallly such
good technicians. I know that Bob will work a year before putting
something in the act.
Msg #36826 Dated 20:31:24 03-11-92 36729 <--> 36827
From: CY KELLER
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Real magic with Crab Cakes is with TWO crackers - like a
sandwich. I had forgotten that I had introduced you to the real
work. I guess that is why you asked me where the DMS people could
go in Baltimore to get good Seafood. I recommended Conley's.
Y'all seemed quite satisfied. Pete may disagree. Conley's closed
just a few months ago, so I'll have to find another place to
recommend.
.
Speaking of old times and the resurgence of Safety Pin
tricks. Remember the guy who worked for Al Cohen who did
incredible stuff with regular pins? I think some of it wound up
in Apocalypse. For those not in on this - Two pins are linked
magically and handed to a spectator to take apart. It can't be
done as the part with the head and the coil are linked through
the head of the other pin. I hope that's clear.
Msg #36827 Dated 20:31:43 03-11-92 36733 <--> 36828
From: CY KELLER
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Most people forget that Jeff Altman was a great impersonator. A
few months after Jimmy Carter was elected, he put out a record
doing Carter, Nixon, Agnew etc. Was pleased to hear from David
Roth at a lecture after Roth's return from LA that I was one of
the people that Jeff did. I seem to have a peculiar way of saying
"Yeah". It's probably the Baltimore accent.
Msg #36828 Dated 20:31:53 03-11-92 36739 <--> 36829
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Heard of Stensel. Some moves are attributed to him in some of the
books. Not surprised to hear the load is his. A lot of people out
of the mainstream of publishing are not usuallly credited enough.
It's usually in somebody else's routine. Eddie Fields is usually
credited as the inventor of the Don Allen routine with the
Invisible Deck. Of course we all remember the BENSON Bowl
Routine.
Msg #36829 Dated 20:32:05 03-11-92 36743 <--> 36830
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Don't know wether Jeff's price would be OK for the comedy club.
I'm sure he would like to do it, but not sure he has enough
magic. Might give him a call.
Msg #36830 Dated 20:32:12 03-11-92 36749 <--> 36848
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
I hope some of the younger guys realize from our reminises how
hard we had it trying to learn magic in the 40's and 50's. There
wasn't much around. If you were in New York or the West Coast it
was a little easier. In Baltimore we had Fetsch and Christopher.
I guess that ain't bad.
.
I think I was in the worst Scout troop. I did, however give my
first performance for them. The feature was the Malini Card Stab.
God how little I knew in those days!
Msg #36831 Dated 20:32:26 03-11-92 36760 <--> 36832
From: CY KELLER
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Anneman said something like "In magic, anything goes. If you use
nine persons to fool the tenth that OK". Max will give the real
quote if its enough different. Anything Goes was a big musical at
the time and thus the beginning of the remark.
.
I'm not sure I agree completely. I heard from a friend that
Maurice Fogel used him as a stooge in a table lifting routine. I
had no reason to doubt this. There are some cases where it works.
In some cases of mentalism the performer has to go to great
lenghts to show a stooge is not used. The effct is meaningless if
this is not done. I'd like to hear some more effects where a
stooge is acceptable. Don't know Cronomadic or the book - sorry.
In many cases the audience doesn't care.
Msg #36832 Dated 20:32:43 03-11-92 36790 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: HIMBER RING
Yes TA, there is an imperative in most mental magic. NO STOOGES.
All of most presentations in mentalism are stressing no use of
stooges. Stooges is the first thing that enters the mind of an
audience. See Tamariz. I'm sure that Max can add something to
this discussion. Are you there MAx?
.
I'll have to look up Chrnomadic. It must be something!!!
Msg #36833 Dated 20:32:54 03-11-92 36793 <--> 36840
From: CY KELLER
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
Only one trick?
3 Card Monte - Card in the Wallet - Color Change Routine -
Copper/Silver/Brass - Triumph (the world's greatest card trick).
This is an interesting subject. Hope everyone contributes to
remind us of some greats. Personally I don't think the first two
of your tricks are THAT strong. They're good - but filler.
Msg #36834 Dated 20:33:05 03-11-92 35699 <--> 36861
From: CY KELLER
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: BLATANT PLUG
The Fox/Ford story has to be the greatest. Big money - big show.
But the question is for us regular guys. So we might use our
heads to think up something really great. If I'm going to be
hired to do close-up card stuff, I'll stick by my ideas for a
starter.
Msg #36835 Dated 20:33:14 03-11-92 36807 <--> 36846
From: CY KELLER
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: HELP!
Nightmare - Yeah. I was ripped off at a Eddie Fechter Lecture in
WAshington D.C. Hope everything was replaceble. That time some
things were only one of a kind. Another rip-off I was able to
replace everything. Took some time! Buy some cards and get some
coins and go back to the basics. I know this doesn't read very
understandlingly, but I've been through it and I emphathise.
The new house - bad. Get some simple stuff together and get some
shows. You can do a hell of a lot with a few props. Some of those
on line will help. I'm sure.
Msg #36837 Dated 20:39:50 03-11-92 -> 36841
From: JIM SISTI
To: ALL
Re: PROPS NEEDED
Thanks to one and all for offers of assistance. I'm working now on a
list of exactly what was taken and what the minimum I'll need to get up
and running again is. The problem is that since we just closed on our
new home, we have about $40.00, which is why replacement is going to be
a problem... at least until the insurance check arrives (after the $250
deductible). Thanks again...I'll be in touch!
Msg #36838 Dated 20:45:40 03-11-92 35622 <-
From: WAYNE N KEYSER
To: SCOTT ALCALAY (X)
Re: GIFS GALORE!
I have a 1977 Datsun pickup - really 95% rust - and Earl Scheib paint
with special hardener/toughener is the only thing holding it
together! Hats off and a moment's silence for Earl!
Msg #36839 Dated 20:48:34 03-11-92 -> 36853
From: CY KELLER
To: ALL
Re: GOETNER
Hey!!! Paul Goertner onCarson Carson tonight
Msg #36840 Dated 21:02:23 03-11-92 36793 <--> 36860
From: WAYNE N KEYSER
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
You enter. You shake hands. You sit down, reach into your pocket
and palm a coin. You talk details for 15 or 20 minutes with your hands
in
plain sight, then reach over to the desktop, rub vigorously, and
uncover
that coin. WHERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM??? has to be the
reaction. Alternate: cigarette thru quarter. It's not a dazzling
display of technical skill ... it's just a 100% impossibility done
right in front of the client's nose.
Msg #36841 Dated 21:06:32 03-11-92 36837 <--> 36850
From: WAYNE N KEYSER
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: PROPS NEEDED
I feel for you! Suggestion: use the crisis as an opportunity to
do something entirely new instead of getting your old act 100% back.
I'm always stuck in the same old act and often need a kick in
the rear to make a change. Good luck!
Msg #36842 Dated 21:09:51 03-11-92 -> 36847
From: JEFFREY COWAN
To: ALL
Re: SOFTWARE
I'm a new member to the system, and the software I've got that runs my
modem doesn't seem to allow for downloading data. I met several
members at the Castle a few weeks ago who offered to send me a disc
with a program that would allow downloading, but I haven't heard
anything. So. . . if you guys are out there, I would greatly
appreciate the software. Or, if anyone else could copy the software,
that would be great. I've got an IBM clone that takes floppy double
density discs. Of course I'll reimburse a sender for the postage, and
I'll be happy to return the disc. Thanks much.
Msg #36843 Dated 21:27:37 03-11-92 -> 36851
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: PROBLEM
David: Thanks for the help and sorry to have called so late.
Show-Biz Expo is not for a number of months, but I'll take care of you
when the time comes.
Finish the meeting by 11. I'm buying.
Msg #36846 Dated 21:54:57 03-11-92 36807 <--> 36862
From: MIKE KING
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: HELP!
Sorry to hear the bad news. I do not have props for sale. But not to
long back had a similar experience. IT'S THE PITS!!!!! If I see any
props will let you know. MIKE.
Msg #36847 Dated 22:04:04 03-11-92 36842 <--> 36943
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: JEFFREY COWAN (X)
Re: SOFTWARE
Hiya, Jeff! If you'll send me your address via private message, I'll
send you my floppy right away. I am fairly new, too, and the software
that I have is pretty good for downloading. Under a minute! I
received a brand new IBM clone also as a birthday gift. For a week I
was trying to decide whether it was the best or worst present I ever
got!
Stace
Msg #36848 Dated 22:23:24 03-11-92 36830 <--> 36856
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
When I think back on my early magic activities I think the hard part
was the alone-ness. I don't remember too many other children who were
interested in learning magic. There weren't many magic shops and there
were few books in the libraries. I don't remember what sorts of clubs
there were in elementary school (my first elementary school consisted
of four classrooms, four female teachers and a female principal and had
a REAL schoolbell in a tower - when you got to third grade the teacher
could choose you to be the bell-ringer for a week and you got to school
early, went up to the attic and pulled on the rope), but in Jr. High
there were music clubs, math clubs, science club, even a cooking club,
but no magic club.
Frankly, for the young set, I don't know that things are much different
today - there are only two magic stores that I am aware of that are
actually in L.A. (and a few others scattered in the surrounding
cities), so I assume there are even less stores today than there were
when I was a child. One thing that I feel very positive about is that
there is MAGIC! and we do have some young members (around 15 - 16 years
old), although they generally don't get to sign on very often and
sometimes have to disappear for months after their folks get the phone
bill.
Msg #36850 Dated 22:38:30 03-11-92 36837 <--> 36870
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: PROPS NEEDED
I'm sure that a lot of us will do whatever we can to help you get back
in biz, Jim.
Msg #36851 Dated 22:40:15 03-11-92 36843 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: PROBLEM
OK, Marvin - I'll try to get to the Castle this Friday for lunch. Will
have my normal chili, so you won't get killed by the tab.
Msg #36853 Dated 22:42:31 03-11-92 36839 <--> 36863
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: GOETNER
Thanks for the television alert, Cy! Will try to get a look at the
Carson show.
Msg #36854 Dated 23:19:25 03-11-92 36815 <--> 36855
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CAN'T STOP NOW - MCCMS 19
I will cut the deck, but will not tell how.
Msg #36855 Dated 23:19:28 03-11-92 36817 <--> 36874
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CAN'T STOP NOW - MCCMS 19
Stacey should book a group charter camel er sumpin...
.
NUTS... I BEEN LOOKING FOR SIX HOURS FOUR A SET OF FOTOS I SET
IN A SAFE PLACE... CAN'T FIND AND THEY ARE FOR A MAGAZINE COVER.
.
I have a secret source that has A TAPE of Copperfield's show
already!! Killer... the last 15 minutes are going to fry all magic
brains...
./
A group in the audience sued David for class action of $1 Million,
as they said they couldn't see good, were blocked by tv cameras,
etc... I could let you sweat... but he got an out of court settle-
ment by giving them all comp tickets to a live show when it comes
nearby.... I don't ahve all the details... but... stay tuned...
.
You read it here first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HO...
Msg #36856 Dated 23:19:45 03-11-92 36825 <--> 36857
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
No question SHEETS is high on the all time greats list.
Msg #36857 Dated 23:19:48 03-11-92 36826 <--> 36858
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
I have seen some of the pin stuff, but forget who did it... KIen
Brooke had one of the funniest gags in the history of silly stuff
with a pin and borrowed handkerchief... he tore the guys hkf to
shreds trying to do the penetration... laffed so hard the tears
ran down my legs...
Msg #36858 Dated 23:19:55 03-11-92 36828 <--> 36859
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Benson it is...
Msg #36859 Dated 23:19:57 03-11-92 36829 <--> 36913
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Who needs magic?
Msg #36860 Dated 23:20:00 03-11-92 36833 <--> 36880
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
Triumph, when done as written by Vernon remains the best version.
The story goes (I think it was Cervon) who was trying to impress
Vernon with his improved handling and skill doing Triumph. Vernon
grabbed the cards and said something like "NO NO all wrong..."
Too slick, you MUST PRESENT IT PROPERLY, IT IS ALL PRESENTATION.."
.
So true. Even the Slop Shuffle version (when there is no table) is
FANTASTIC TRICK....
Msg #36861 Dated 23:20:10 03-11-92 36834 <--> 36938
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: BLATANT PLUG
WHAT ARE YOUR IDEAS? Did I miss a message? List? I know I blew some
messages earlier by hitting wrong key and they vanished...
Msg #36862 Dated 23:20:13 03-11-92 36835 <--> 36873
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: HELP!
Some fellow magician stole my Silver Dollars ( couple faked ) after
a lecture... argh...
Msg #36863 Dated 23:20:17 03-11-92 36839 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: GOETNER
Thanks Cy, time zone wise I mite catch him.... still have to pack
and fly to Vegas in crack of dawn... manana
Msg #36864 Dated 23:20:25 03-11-92
From: PETE BIRO
To: GENO MUNARI (X)
Re: COMIN
Will be in Vegas Noon tomorrow and going to Gambler's Book Club to buy
TAs G
Encyclopedia... staying at Gold Coast leave Sunday, want to see Melinda
show (mite have couple of guys with me)... later
Msg #36867 Dated 23:34:21 03-11-92 -> 36868
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: ALL
Re: RACE CARS
Did any if you ever have a stroke of luck that was...well...DIFFERENT?
I got a call at work today and the voice said that I had won a CAR! I
almost passed out with joy. Could I come and get it? There was a
cloud of dust where I WAS and I zoomed over. Well...I won a CAR,
allright. Ever go to the go cart track and race those miniature
Formula One racers? Well, you don't need to go to the track anymore.
Just come to Stacey's house. I won a yellow one with red stripes. I'm
not sure whether to laugh or cry. It's a perfect replica right down to
the last detail. Okay, all you macho guys. What the Sam Hill do I DO
with this thing? I can't exactly drive it to the Castle on a Saturday
night! Anybody who knows anything about these little cars, let me
know. Thanks!
Stace
Msg #36868 Dated 0:06:46 03-12-92 36867 <--> 36876
From: ANTHONY BLAKE
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: RACE CARS
Stacey...
Here's the thing...you have the MAGIC! logo painted on it and we form
a MAGIC! racing team. Biro can take the promo pictures...something lke
before and afters...before would be you car (I suppose it's one of
those from the Malibu Grand Prix) and the after would be the statue of
super pig at the Castle...if ever there is a lesson to be learned about
drinking and driving this would be it. The again you could call
Copperfield and sell it to him (heh..heh) and tell him to do a
levitation with the car...nah..not plausible.
Tony
Msg #36870 Dated 0:17:31 03-12-92 36837 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: PROPS NEEDED
Check with your insurance company to make sure you're covered for
personal property in the vehicle. Best of luck and sorry to hear about
this. It feels awful, I know.
Msg #36871 Dated 0:35:53 03-12-92 36759 <--> 36903
From: JERRY BURTON
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
Yea I know what you mean by boggling the mind. I understand that
Thorpes system is considered EASY compared to some of the more
modern methods.
.
I'll stick to poker !
Msg #36872 Dated 0:35:56 03-12-92 36798 <--> 36904
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: AUSTRALIA
Yo maybe we can plan a run to the Gambler's book store during the day
while at DMS. I got wheels.
Msg #36873 Dated 0:35:59 03-12-92 36812 <--> 36905
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HELP!
What do you need ??? Post a list and I'll see if a care package could
be made up.
Msg #36874 Dated 0:36:01 03-12-92 36817 <--> 36878
From: JERRY BURTON
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CAN'T STOP NOW - MCCMS 19
If Stacy can come up with a decent fare, you can sign me up. I might
even go on up to CT for the rest of the week and see my daughter.
.
Looks like you have some bizarre types on the show for next year.
.
What day are you coming into DMS ???
Msg #36875 Dated 0:36:05 03-12-92 36823 <--> 36906
From: JERRY BURTON
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
Hmmm, not a bad idea - sitting on Tabby's left. I'm not sure I can
afford the stakes he plays for. I'm a wuss when it comes to gambling,
normally play $ 1-4 7 card stud or hold 'em.
Msg #36876 Dated 0:37:21 03-12-92 36868 <--> 36901
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: ANTHONY BLAKE (X)
Re: RACE CARS
With my luck (and his) he'd drop my poor little car just like the
Ferrari fell the one time and I'd have a box full of pieces. A MAGIC!
race team...now THERE'S a thought! And team captains for each squad!
I'd like to be on Sigfried and Roy's team. If anyone doesn't like our
rules we'll feed them to the tigers. Our mascot can be Lance Burton in
a Speedo, so nobody will pay any attention to US if we cheat.
Copperfield can drive (so what if he doesn't know how to drive - he can
fly!). Max Maven can write the review of the race. With his ultra
clever command of the English language nobody will know if we won or
lost without consulting a thesaurus. After a year on the road, we
dedicate the car to the Castle and it goes next to super pig. I like
this idea! You're a genius, Tony!
Msg #36877 Dated 0:57:36 03-12-92 36796 <-
From: FRANK ZAK
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: GOINGS ON
I'll see you then. I have to pick up the badges for my security people.
Msg #36878 Dated 0:56:49 03-12-92 36855 <--> 36889
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CAN'T STOP NOW - MCCMS 19
Hope you find those cover photos! I _HATE_ when that happens - you put
something down and it wanders away. Reasonable to expect if what you
put down was a live lizard, but not reasonable when it was photos,
papers or diskettes. BAH!
VERY INTERESTING about the Cop show! Am really looking forward to this
one. And THANKS for the info about the suit and the settlement! There
were rumors about the suit, but you is right - word of the settlement
is a MAGIC! first!
Msg #36879 Dated 0:58:28 03-12-92 36797 <--> 37096
From: FRANK ZAK
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: VACATION
Bill and I go way back to my days at the Forks. I had a chance to watch
Bill do street magic on Pier 39. He does one hell of a job.
Msg #36880 Dated 1:00:40 03-12-92 36799 <--> 36883
From: FRANK ZAK
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
That's a fantastic story. Knowing Karrel it's believable.
Msg #36883 Dated 1:03:50 03-12-92 36833 <--> 36963
From: FRANK ZAK
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
I have a good strong presentation on them. Be honest what is it has
been in my act for 15 or so years.
Msg #36889 Dated 1:10:57 03-12-92 36815 <-
From: FRANK ZAK
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: CAN'T STOP NOW - MCCMS 19
Do you make wands? If you do let me know prices. Then if you are coming
to Vegas I can have you bring me one.
Msg #36893 Dated 5:53:37 03-12-92 36701 <--> 37245
From: MICHAEL AMMAR
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: AUCTION
I'm not sure of the final count at this years auction, but I plan on
talking to David Luther before the weekend, so I'll find out and let
you know!
Msg #36896 Dated 5:55:50 03-12-92 -> 36907
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: HARBIN
Pete asked me about the Harbincadabra book. Unfortunately we don't
have it in stock, its a very popular book. If we get it will let you
know. Did you say Francis Martineau is going to DMS? Local guy here
in Houston is a big Marineau fan - he's always on the lookout for any
books with Martineaus's artwork, etc.
Charlie
Msg #36897 Dated 5:58:15 03-12-92 -> 36917
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: ALL
Re: MOTHER OF COBOL
I don't know if anyone really cares but it is Jean Sammet who is
usually the lady associated with Cobol, although it was actually
designed by a committee. Grace Hooper was on a committee that advised
that committee!
Charlie
Msg #36901 Dated 7:33:09 03-12-92 36867 <--> 36902
From: PETE BIRO
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: RACE CARS
Need a better description. Cars is cars until details. Mebbe can
find a buyer for you as I is in Car Magazine biz.
Msg #36902 Dated 7:33:13 03-12-92 36868 <--> 36977
From: PETE BIRO
To: ANTHONY BLAKE (X)
Re: RACE CARS
I have a picture of a magician doing a levi with a kid sitting in
a car... and Doug Henning did the same at our Long Beach IBM
Convention... too late dude
Msg #36903 Dated 7:33:17 03-12-92 36871 <--> 36945
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
I wait, put $5,000 on Red and either smile or take a S***!
Msg #36904 Dated 7:33:20 03-12-92 36872 <--> 36999
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: AUSTRALIA
Sounds goooooooood to me... they got tons o books, magic too.
Msg #36905 Dated 7:33:23 03-12-92 36873 <--> 36944
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: HELP!
I need $200,00 cash. Sisti needs props.
Msg #36906 Dated 7:33:26 03-12-92 36875 <--> 36946
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
At Blackjack it is best to pay 3rd base.
Msg #36907 Dated 7:33:29 03-12-92 36896 <--> 36909
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: HARBIN
TILT!
Msg #36908 Dated 7:33:37 03-12-92 -> 36947
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ERROR
TYPE ALERT, TYPO ALERT. Previous message should ahG
correctioon... should have read "$240,000.00" (then you can have my %
of the house on the oceanfront and I am freeeeeeee
Msg #36909 Dated 8:17:27 03-12-92 36896 <-
From: MIKE KING
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: HARBIN
Thanks for info about Harbin book. Hate to report, but Frank headed
back to Canada yesterday (3/11/92). The smog in L.A. was bothering him
and he got a bit of an infection. He said he will be returning in the
not to distant future. I will keep all informed. Myself and Mark
Wilson, Nani and a friend of mine spent the night of the 10th with
Frank at the Castle. It was his birthday. He was 70! You could
never tell it. I am trying to get him to write a new book on
illusions. We sat for a few days and talked about it. It looks
promising. I am flying up his way in a few weeks and we will put the
"rough draft" together. He has some amazing ideas. What a gifted
designer. Thanks again for responding about Harbin book. Keep me
posted. also looking for Sharpe's Optical Illusion Secrets.
MIKE.
Msg #36910 Dated 9:25:19 03-12-92 36609 <--> 36914
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WHERE WOULD WE BE
Re your perfect world...somehow I don't think magic and uptopia are
compatiable. While one can certainly agree with you philosophically,
implementation of that philosophical concept into reality is often
impossible because of legal contraints.
Msg #36913 Dated 9:26:23 03-12-92 36651 <--> 36990
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
I have never used any of Frank's material professionally either. I
was talking about either learning it for my own enjoyment, or doing
it when I used to go to local club meetings and perform something.
The only exception I can think of is that crazy false cut of his
which was in print without credit to Frank. I don't know the name of
it, but I will do it sometimes if the situation calls for a fancy
false cut.
Msg #36914 Dated 9:26:42 03-12-92 36652 <--> 40201
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: WHERE WOULD WE BE
Those are your standards of acceptance and they are certainly most
admirable and high standing. I was talking about the fact that not
only are there no standards for who is a dealer versus a manufacturer
, etc., the dealers themselves have no standards. What does one have
to do to join the Magic Dealers Association?
The other point I was trying to make is similar to the concept that
T.A. Waters was talking about in relation to the thread about the
different fees for magicians and their "female guests" and the fact
that conventions are in a sense open to the public and one must be
very careful about what barriers are raised to prevent entry and
participation. In the case of dealers, the blocking of the ability
to display and sell can be grounds for demonstrated financial loss
which is am important point should a party choose to sue for damages.
An organization must be very careful regarding the reasons it states
when it denies one the right to participate.
Msg #36915 Dated 11:13:25 03-12-92 -> 36941
From: JIM SISTI
To: ALL
Re: BOOKS FOR SALE
Damaged goods sale!! When they broke into my van, it was
raining and the water damaged some books that I was shipping
out the next morning. They're still readable and only very
slightly damaged (the edges are a bit "curly"). If anyone
is interested in them at half-price, please let me know. I
have seven copies each of THE MAGIC MENU-YEAR ONE and
PROFESSIONAL RESTAURANT MAGIC. Each sells for $20.00 brand
new. Yours for an unbelievable $10.00 for the first
fourteen interested parties. Thanks again!
Msg #36917 Dated 11:30:02 03-12-92 36897 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: MOTHER OF COBOL
Wow, Charlie! I'd always given a lot of the credit to Hooper too. Do
you remember her famous wire bit? The one where she figured out the
length (in inches) of a nanosecond?
Msg #36931 Dated 18:43:39 03-12-92
From: STEVE BRYANT
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: PROPS NEEDED
Jim,
Really sorry to hear about the robbery. Can't help
with the past, but, since you just closed on a house,
be sure that your insurance is replacement value (i.e,
if someone steals your TV, you get a NEW TV, not the
value yours was worth because it was 5 years old,
etc.). Usually doesn't cost much more, and really
comes in handy when something goes wrong. I was at a
magic convention in St. Louis when a maid stole my 35
mm SLR from my room. The insurance replaced it, less
deductible. (Later, with a persistent letter writing
campaign, I was able to get the hotel to cough up the
replacement value, and then I repaid my insurance, but
it was still nice to have the coverage.) Regrettably,
there was no way to cover the film. Had last shots of
Don Lawton and some other priceless footage.
Again, sorry to hear about the loss, but congrats
anyway on the house.
Msg #36937 Dated 19:27:31 03-12-92 -> 36953
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: GENII
I see where Tabman's Symposium got a full page write-up in Genii.
Sounds like it went well.
Also, see that Leno made the cover of Time and the article was equally
as good.
Msg #36938 Dated 20:07:58 03-12-92 36861 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BLATANT PLUG
Pete - my ideas were in message # 36833. Hope you can find it. If
not, let me know.
Msg #36941 Dated 20:08:21 03-12-92 36915 <--> 36951
From: CY KELLER
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: BOOKS FOR SALE
OK - I'll take both. Is that $20.00 or $10.00 for both. Let me
know and I'll send check.
Cy Keller
15 Charles Plaza Apt 1106
Baltimore, MD 21201
Msg #36943 Dated 20:30:43 03-12-92 36847 <--> 36964
From: JERRY BURTON
To: JEFFREY COWAN (X)
Re: SOFTWARE
Hi Jeff - remember me, Burton the Bizarre (mit da handlebar moustache
) - Let me know your address and I'll send you a copy of the
public domain Procomm+ and the latest version of IMP! to minimize
your on-line time.
Msg #36944 Dated 20:30:45 03-12-92 36905 <--> 37046
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: HELP!
Was that $ 200.00, $20,000, or $ 200,000 - will you take rubles ?
Msg #36945 Dated 20:30:47 03-12-92 36903 <--> 37047
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
Gee Pete where do you play blackjack that they have a choice for RED?
Msg #36946 Dated 20:30:48 03-12-92 36906 <--> 37048
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BLACKJACK
Why is it best to play 3rd base in Blackjack - cards is cards ?
Msg #36947 Dated 20:30:50 03-12-92 36908 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ERROR
See my prior response re rubles ??
Msg #36951 Dated 20:30:27 03-12-92 36941 <--> 37182
From: JIM SISTI
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: BOOKS FOR SALE
Thanks, Cy. It's $10.00 each...each retails for $20.00. Appreciate
it! I'll save one of each for you.
Msg #36953 Dated 20:53:23 03-12-92 36937 <--> 37045
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: GENII
Glad to hear about the Tabman Symposium's write up in Genii - maybe my
copy will come tomorrow. Leno on the cover of Time? Wish we'd known
in advance - maybe we could have persuaded him to hold up a photo of
Biro.
Msg #36955 Dated 21:37:51 03-12-92 36645 <--> 36956
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
David,
I'll remember that story the next time someone is called a model
citizen.
Thanks for sharing.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36956 Dated 21:37:59 03-12-92 36650 <--> 36958
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
One of my earliest memories is of attending a lecture of Grace
Hopper's.
It was the first time I understood what relativistic speeds were
all about.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36958 Dated 21:38:18 03-12-92 36679 <-
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MICHAELANGELO
Pete,
If you've written that message, and everything you write is the
truth, then ipso facto.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36960 Dated 21:38:34 03-12-92 36681 <-
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MR. PETE
Pete,
Is it safe to assume that since you've typed your nom de comp
that you are in bed and not asleep?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36961 Dated 21:38:42 03-12-92 36751 <--> 36969
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SCANNER
David,
I, for one, give you my vote of confidence as sysop. I've done
it, and wouldn't wish that sort of headache on anyone. You do a
great job with an amazing amount of activity.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36963 Dated 21:38:58 03-12-92 36793 <--> 36980
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
Frank,
Do I want the job doing stage work or close-up? Comedy or
dramatic?
Steven Soundheim once said basically, if you tell me to write a
love song, I don't know what to do. But tell me to write a love
song about a girl who just turned 17 and is on her way home from
a dance held at her brother's high school, and she is wearing a
....
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36964 Dated 21:39:07 03-12-92 36842 <-
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: JEFFREY COWAN (X)
Re: SOFTWARE
Jeffrey,
I've sent three pieces of mail that have had problems in my life.
The first was a tamborine from New York, the second was to Pete
Biro (He got his eventually) and the third appears to be to you.
Have you not received the disk yet?
I can send another copy. Let me know.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #36967 Dated 22:01:30 03-12-92 36822 <--> 36970
From: SCOTT MILLER
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
Well to what point has your taste in magic improved to?
As far a my standards in magic, I think that I have seen the linking
rings, head chopper and the zombie way to many times. The magicians of
today are just clones of others that have the artistic touch to be
orginal and it seems that they are few and far between! Its good to see
someone with the guts to do something realy differnt for a change.
Why dont we look back at some of the werd things that would make people
think that a man could have suupernatural powers to be giving the title
of "MAGICIAN". One of the things that realy gets the hair to stand up
on the back of my neck is when I hear a MAGICIAN asked to do some thing
with a coin or a cards and he (or she) says well I do stage magic!!! if
you are going to call yourself a Magician, you should be well versed if
in all areas of magic even if you specialise in a certain area!!!
Thanks for your comment no I dont think that there should be a room fr
for the fat lady and guys with no legs, but I do hope that more will
have the guts to do what I what I saw that night.....which was a very
entertaining show........and I audience riveted on his every move and
word! Now that is art!
Steelfyre
(****[===================>
Scott Miller
Msg #36969 Dated 22:58:33 03-12-92 36961 <--> 36998
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: SCANNER
Well, I ain't much, but I'm all we've got. Thanks for the vote of
confidence - that makes it:
LICHTMAN - 1 BIRO - 0
Msg #36970 Dated 23:02:59 03-12-92 36967 <--> 36976
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: SCOTT MILLER (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
Scott -
You've brought up a question which was debated some time ago, but over
which I personally was never quite able to make up my mind - should a
magician be "forced" into impromptu performances? If you are a working
stage mage, should you also be expected to entertain folks at dinner?
Or should you be able to politely say "No" without destroying your
magical mystique?
Lawyers and doctors, for example, frequently get asked professional
questions during cocktail parties. Some have been known to go ahead
and answer them and then send a bill in the morning.
Max Maven came up with an interesting answer (and I'm sure if I
misquote it he will correct me) in that he basically says, "I'm here to
have a good time, please don't ask me to work."
Maybe "I do stage magic" is the wrong answer, but should a mage have to
produce a rabbit at the drop of a hat?
Msg #36976 Dated 0:41:57 03-13-92 36970 <--> 36981
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
This was a topic of extended discussion on this board some time back.
You have, as you suspected, misquoted me. I don't generally say "I'm
here to have a good time, please don't ask me to work." I'm usually
more blunt.
By the way, _why_ should a stage magician be able to do a coin trick?
I certainly think that it is of value for a magician to explore the art
and learn things about other than his/her main area of involvement, as
such exploration tends to stimulate artistic development. But the
suggestion that, for example, a stage magician _should_ be able to do
a performance of close-up coin magic is akin to saying that, say,
Yo Yo Ma is a poor musician because he can't sit down at the piano and
knock out a stride tune.
Mind you, for all I know he can, but if he can't it hardly reflects on
his virtuoso skill.
Msg #36977 Dated 0:47:07 03-13-92 36902 <--> 37054
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RACE CARS
The magician who did the levi of the child in the kiddycar was Aldo
Richiardi. (That may not be who is in your photo, but the effect was
Aldo's.) One of his performances of that very routine is slated for
inclusion in the next Ed Sullivan compilation special on CBS.
Msg #36980 Dated 1:20:44 03-13-92 36963 <--> 36982
From: FRANK ZAK
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
The job is for whatever you do best. This is a debate that I have had
with a couple of magicians for quite some time. It is always
interesting to get fresh insight.
Msg #36981 Dated 1:17:25 03-13-92 36976 <--> 37024
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
Gee, I thought I had remembered at least a reasonable facsimile of the
quote. Somehow, I do not feel it would be wise to ask you what the
more blunt answer is, unless it is simply "No."
I tend to agree with your analogy of Yo Yo Ma and the piano when it
comes to asking someone to do something that is outside of their
domain, although I can think of few stage magi who couldn't also do a
card or coin or other close-up trick. The question would be whether
they would want to.
Perhaps the issue has something to do with whether or not the mage
portrays him or herself as having some sort of "power" as a part of
their performance. If so, then it would seem that people would have
difficulty accepting the idea that the power wasn't always present and,
should the mage choose not to perform in an informal circumstance, then
they would have to offer a reason other than "I can't do that."
There may be two parts to the question - one deals with the necessity
of being able to perform in informal or impromptu circumstances, and
the other deals with the form of the negative answer one might give
should they wish not to do so.
Msg #36982 Dated 1:28:38 03-13-92 36980 <--> 37001
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
I think if I was going to do one effect that would sell my routine, it
would be an effect from the routine. After all, if the effect is good
enough to make the sale, why wouldn't I be using it?
There are two effect in my current routine that I might select. One is
a bill to envelope in wallet and the other is a card thing that I have
no name for, but that is usually my closer. If those don't make the
sale, maybe I should give the prospect some other mage's phone number!
Msg #36990 Dated 7:31:17 03-13-92 36739 <--> 36992
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Bob stensel of the Stensel Aces fame? I have met Bob and saw him
work at the early FFFFs in Buffalo. He is a quiet, unassuming fellow
who did very nice card work. I don't recall him doing other types of
magic or any discussions regarding the chop cup routine. However, it
has been years since I saw him work or have been to an FFFF.
Msg #36992 Dated 7:31:47 03-13-92 36741 <--> 36993
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
I would like to see the pix of Ken and the pud some day.
Msg #36993 Dated 7:31:53 03-13-92 36742 <--> 36994
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
What was the chicken coop at Lloyds?
Msg #36994 Dated 7:31:59 03-13-92 36743 <--> 36996
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Jeff is one of a kind. I got to know him when he was going to
Johns Hopkins in Baltimore in the late sixties and early seventies.
Not only a great comedic talent but also a very good card magician.
I remember once when the two of us and another magician named Al
Gallo got into a Playboy Club in New York. None of us were members,
but Al walked with a cane due to a bad leg which was the result of
war wounds. As we approached the doorman, Jeff suddenly became
General Gallo's aide and began to admonish the doorman to show him th
e table for General Gallo and his party. A bit of shuffling, we went
not only to the head of the line, but to a fine table in a warm club
on a bitterly cold night in New York.
Msg #36995 Dated 7:32:27 03-13-92 36744 <--> 37061
From: BILL WELLS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: YOWSUH!
I remembered all the books being in the adjoining room the last time
I was at David's place. I didn't figure he had sold them. If you
go see him, I am sure he would like one of those posters Nagel should
have sent you by now.
Msg #36996 Dated 7:32:39 03-13-92 36749 <--> 37002
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Growing up in the country and being interested in something like
magic is quite differently than having such an interest in an urban
area. Not only was I forced to mail order magic as a source of props
and books, but audiences were few and far between. The nearest
family was about three miles away. The rich array of magic
literature that exists today was not that available in the early 50's
and believe it or not, one did not readily learn of the existance of
magic societies from mail order catalogs. I had a cousin who was
also interested in magic and we managed to stimulate each other
interest and learning sufficiently to finally enter a talent contest
at school. I don't remember the year but I would guess about sixth
or seventh grade. We won and went on to complete in the county final
ist show where we managed to place second. I remember buying a
couple of books and being sorely disappointed. Of course, a young
boy isn't necessarily going to be attracted to pocket items and
close up magic. Hard earned pennies had to go for something of
greater visibility and supposed substance.
Msg #36998 Dated 7:33:32 03-13-92 36751 <--> 37013
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SCANNER
No one of sane disposition would "grab" at such a thankless task!
If you plan to make such an offer, please put together a realistic
job description to ward off the glory hounds.
Msg #36999 Dated 7:33:42 03-13-92 36752 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: AUSTRALIA
Another country??? I have been accused of sometimes being in left
field, but another country??? Of course, if I was siding with Bye
Roe and the Stace, I suppose most any accusation might have some
degree of applicability. I just didn't take they were necessarily
being any more vulgar than usual....they were just using different
words.
===END OF MAGIC-94===
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