MAGIC! - 98
The following was compiled from the magician's message section of
MAGIC!(tm). MAGIC! is an electronic communications system for
magicians. It may be accessed from any personal computer with a
modem by dialing US 818-896-7450. New registrants must leave a
comment with their name, address, phone number and a brief resume of
their magic background to be considered for membership. The
material herein should be treated as confidentially as other magic
information. Copyright 1992 by MAGIC!, All rights reserved.
Small errors may occur while messages are created, or during the
process of transfering them to files. MAGIC! assumes no
responsibility or liability for these errors.
Msg #38500 Dated 22:57:00 03-29-92 38486 <--> 38505
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
And she does STANDARD STUFF... Rice Bowls, Mutilated Parasol, etc.,
and NOBODY cares... it is her projection, dance work and style!!!
That transcends the tricks she uses.
Msg #38501 Dated 22:57:04 03-29-92 38490 <--> 38533
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Go for it, Dude!!! Go...
Msg #38502 Dated 23:05:07 03-29-92 38481 <--> 38503
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
People don't want to believe in real magic? Most religion is based in
magic -- or miracles. On a more secular level, how do you explain the
ascendance of Uri Geller? That bending a spoon is such a terrific
trick?
Msg #38503 Dated 23:07:27 03-29-92 38484 <--> 38507
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Actually, it is much easier to get people to believe in real magic in
a closeup or intimate situation than in a stage context; I am assuming
here that we aren't talking packet tricks and Okito Boxes...
Msg #38505 Dated 23:17:18 03-29-92 38486 <--> 38531
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
In an earlier message you listed books on showmanship you liked; ALL
were by magicians. Nelms was, of course, not a magician but a theatre
person (he wrote a classic in the field, PLAY PRODUCTION. The
theatrical approach to magic -- which is to place it in a dramatic
context -- is clearly for him the most valid.
You mention something about not having the "suspension of disbelief"
he talks about; I am not quite sure just how far you go with this. Do
you mean that when you see a film or a stage drama, you don't get
emotionally involved, react as though it were a real experience? If
this in fact is the case -- you're in the minority. Most people who
experience a dramatic production (presuming it is well done, of course)
lose themself in the artificial reality of what's going on. If they
didn't, they wouldn't cheer when the hero succeeds or cry real tears at
a make-believe tragedy.
At base, I think Nelms is saying that magic should be ABOUT something
-- something more than simply proving you can do it, which is the
province of the novelty act. There are some very fine novelty acts --
but the difference between them and someone who uses magic as a
theatrical art, as a means of communicating some idea, is a very real
one.
Of the dramatic contexts for a magic act, that of supernatural forces
is (excuse me) a natural one; others include super skill (as in a
gambling demonstration), superior mental powers (memory and
calculation), and so on. These are, however, contexts rather than
premises, and are only categories within which the dramatic line can be
built.
There are many approaches to magic; clearly the dramatic one is not
one you can identify with, just as the puzzle approach is not one I
care for at all. Neither, however, is right or wrong; it is simply a
matter of choice. Nelms doesn't work for your context; some of those
you cite work very little if at all for me.
Msg #38506 Dated 23:42:37 03-29-92 38483 <--> 38558
From: MAX MAVEN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DESERT RAMBLINGS
According to the Random House College Dictionary:
Catty, adj. - 2. Quietly or slyly malicious.
Msg #38507 Dated 23:45:33 03-29-92 38419 <--> 38515
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Probably a layperson since not too many magicians believe in 'real'
magic. They are too much into tricks and techniques and probably
would try to work out some kind of alternative handling to the real
power that was bestowed.
Msg #38510 Dated 23:45:42 03-29-92 38435 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: MANNY WELTMAN (X)
Re: THE PIG!
Let's have corn bread - pigs eat corn don't they ? I'll bring a
black candle.
Msg #38511 Dated 23:50:26 03-29-92 38423 <--> 38512
From: JERRY BURTON
To: RICK KITAMURA (X)
Re: BRAIN & MIND SYMPOSIUM
I have a couple of forks that just seemed to melt in my hands. I was
careful not to use undue force, just follow the instructions the guy
gave. I was never able to get the bowl of a spoon to bend, but there
were a couple of woman who did. I wasn't watching them too closely
so they could have been shills - not sure. No one was able to get the
big silver bars to bend.
Msg #38512 Dated 23:50:30 03-29-92 38443 <--> 38513
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: BRAIN & MIND SYMPOSIUM
No actually they were Geller shills - Randi is on the other side !
Msg #38513 Dated 23:50:32 03-29-92 38465 <--> 38534
From: JERRY BURTON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BRAIN & MIND SYMPOSIUM
Same guy this time as before. This time I'm better prepared and watch
everyone closer. I have an engineer/physicist friend who says he
read an article on the physics of silverware bending and there is a
ligitimate scientific explanation. Only problem is he can't find the
article.
.
Are you coming to the Pig Wake & Bake. Seems like many of the other
guys have something called jobs and can't make it.
Msg #38515 Dated 0:05:15 03-30-92 38484 <--> 38528
From: JERRY BURTON
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
It all depends on how YOU want to present your material. I personally
would prefer to have people not be sure whether what they just saw
was skill or use of some 'unknown' power that I posess. What's right
for me is not right for anyone else.
.
As far as people wanting to believe in real magic, there are those
that do and those that don't. I like to shake-up those that don't.
Whether you want to believe it or not 'real' magic does exist, you
just don't normally see it being performed as entertainment.
Msg #38516 Dated 0:05:20 03-30-92 38439 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: VIC&...
That was my problem - it was billed as a comedy magic competition,
so I voted for the magician that made me laugh the most. As I said
I think Vic & Fabrizzi have a wonderful act, they just weren't that
funny - so I had a problem with them winning.
.
I don't think Bubb does magic at all, just some really off the wall
mime routines. I saw him as part of the Vaudville 2000 review with
Kevin James and Rudy Colby.
Msg #38518 Dated 0:05:25 03-30-92 38444 <--> 38560
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: {VIC&F.
Yea Pete I did vote Cervine. I thought his bit on his first performan
ce at the moose hall in Fresno was a scream. I particuliar liked his
treatment of the linking rings (they looked like hoola hoops from
where I was sitting) and how they kept linking at the 'wrong' time
and in the 'wrong' order. I had seen the act at the castle before, bu
t he had added a few bits to make it even stronger.
Msg #38520 Dated 0:05:34 03-30-92 -> 38540
From: JERRY BURTON
To: ALL
Re: RDMAGIC AKA IMP!
Ee;38419
I have just uploaded a new version on RDMAGIC AKA IMP! that prompts
you when it detects a MAGIC.REP on entry or a MAGIC.LOG file on
exit. It allows you to either Delete, Rename, Append to the respectiv
e file.
.
Delete and Rename are obvious, Append merely leaves the files as is
so the next time you use them the new msgs are added to the end of
the existing file.
.
I have been using it for the last few days and it saved me from
adding msgs to a MAGIC.REP file thus duplicating msgs I had already
sent. Makes the whole process a no-brainer.
Msg #38523 Dated 0:08:43 03-30-92 38477 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARK PHILLIPS
Re: SELLING YOURSELF
Don't forget Geno Munari's close-up/parlour at the Continental!
Msg #38525 Dated 0:16:51 03-30-92 38473 <--> 38537
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARK PHILLIPS
Re: "BOY'S LIFE" MAGAZINE
Thanks for the tip, Mark! I didn't know Boy's Life could be bought
over the counter. Will try to check it out. I ain't proud! Besides,
if they look at me funny, I can always say it is for my little sister.
Msg #38528 Dated 0:36:14 03-30-92 38481 <--> 38529
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Goetic magic, or the use of incantations, magic words or spells are
only some ways to do "real" magic. Actually - you described another in
your message - "I did a strange thing before I left the apartment. I
put this card in the zippered compartment. How you got your name on it
is your problem - I can't explain it" suggests _de_ _facto_ real magic,
not a puzzle or a juggle.
I think that people DO want "real" magic - in any age, including ours,
people want to believe that there is a world different than the
hum-drum one that they live in. They want you, as a performer, to take
them there. Even if you can only do that for a few moments, you are
doing magic.
Msg #38529 Dated 0:43:29 03-30-92 38485 <--> 38530
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Judging by most of the performances I see, I wish that more performers
would real Nelms! Or anything that addresses performance!
Msg #38530 Dated 0:46:53 03-30-92 38507 <--> 38543
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
You could be right - would someone with real powers be able to pass the
Castle audition?
Msg #38531 Dated 0:47:51 03-30-92 38486 <--> 38532
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
Again, witch is the wrong approach. The question is, is Jade doing
magic? Or is she doing tricks? In her case, the tricks are simple,
straightforward, and visible - but if you watch the audience, they are
mesmerized (in the common use of the term) by her. They are watching
wonderful things happen on the stage. I don't see anyone saying "Well,
the rice was in the bowl the whole time." She is doing MAGIC.
Msg #38532 Dated 0:52:46 03-30-92 38505 <--> 38557
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
Thank you for that message, T. A. (# 38505 to Cy Keller). That was
superb!
Msg #38533 Dated 0:55:45 03-30-92 38493 <--> 38604
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Skill in presentation is also a tool. What I was trying to say was
that without the creativity, without the conceptualization, skill in
presentation can become a barrier to a really fantastic artist because
it can mask the weak links.
If all I have is "It," skill in presentation, then I can cover a lot of
crummy stuff with charisma. There are, in my opinion, more talents
that are needed than just stage presence.
Msg #38534 Dated 0:59:11 03-30-92 38513 <--> 38638
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BRAIN & MIND SYMPOSIUM
Don't think I'll be able to make it to the Pig thang. Got a business
lunch that day, unfortunately. If it cancels, I'll be there. I've
pretty much been spending every waking hour locked up in my office,
banging my head into the wall over this danged script I'm writing.
Should get head above water soon, if it isn't too damaged by the
wall-banging.
Msg #38535 Dated 1:01:50 03-30-92 38471 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: BAMBI
As far as I know, the Bambi is an award given to people who rescue
and/or popularize the story of small, orphaned animals rescused from
hunters who then go on to befriend numerous (usually speaking) woodland
creatures.
Msg #38536 Dated 1:00:54 03-30-92 38492 <--> 38612
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SLEEP
If your rejection of Nelms is based on considered and thoughtful
review, then you have done what I am suggesting.
Heck, Cy, you are a guy who should be writing a book! Believe me, I'll
buy it, read it, and think about it!
Msg #38537 Dated 1:03:07 03-30-92 38473 <--> 38636
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MARK PHILLIPS
Re: "BOY'S LIFE" MAGAZINE
Considering some of the things I've bought at news stands in my time,
"Boy's Life" would not be a problem.
Msg #38540 Dated 1:08:29 03-30-92 38520 <--> 38561
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RDMAGIC AKA IMP!
THANKS, JERRY! That DELETE/RENAME feature should really help cut down
on the multiple transmissions of the same file. I really appreciate
your work on RDMAGIC/IMP!
Msg #38541 Dated 1:10:17 03-30-92 -> 38542
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: PIG WAKE!
PIG WAKE! PIG WAKE! PIG WAKE! PIG WAKE! PIG WAKE! PIG WAKE! PIG WAKE!
Just in case you have missed it, the PIG WAKE, a memorial "service" for
the recently removed Super Pig, will be held at the Magic Castle on
FRIDAY, April 3rd at 11:30 a.m.! This is _your_ chance to join in the
festivities!
We will have lunch (no host) in the dining room and some rather special
events.
Dress is casual, but, in deference to the occassion you may wish to
wear black. Also, to be appropriately attired, you should buy or bring
a PIG SNOUT to wear - they are available in most costume and novelty
shops.
Membership in the Magic Castle is not required in order to attend, but
you _MUST_ make reservations by leaving me a message here on MAGIC! NO
LATER THAN Wednesday morning!!!
See you there!!!
Msg #38542 Dated 1:16:59 03-30-92 38541 <--> 38549
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: PIG WAKE!
I just had a second thought - I guess pink shirts are OK for a Pig
Wake. Good news for me!
Msg #38543 Dated 1:19:01 03-30-92 38502 <--> 38556
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
The Shaman ain't dead - only difference is, now he has to run for
elected office.
Msg #38544 Dated 7:57:31 03-30-92
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: ALL
Re: DAVID COPPERFIELD
Just finished watching Copperfield on This Morning and it was one of
the BEST interviews I have EVER seen. David was relaxed, articulated
and just plain terrific. The clips portrayed the flying illusion
Boked really great. The two other clips were equally well presented
and truly showed David in his best possible light. This was one
interview worth watching. The interviewer wasn't overbearing and David
looked, acted and sounded top notch. A perfect 10 of an interview!
Bravo!
Msg #38549 Dated 11:46:02 03-30-92 38542 <--> 38552
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Yeh. But what's the excuse for the pants.
Msg #38552 Dated 12:40:21 03-30-92 38549 <--> 38553
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
RE: What's the excuse for the pants.
To keep my orange socks from showing.
Msg #38553 Dated 12:45:30 03-30-92 38552 <--> 38554
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
RE: What's the excuse for the pants.
I've gained weight and all of my green skirts are too tight.
Msg #38554 Dated 12:46:05 03-30-92 38553 <--> 38555
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
RE: What's the excuse for the pants.
I wear plaid boxer shorts and I'm embarrassed to have 'em seen in
public.
Msg #38555 Dated 12:47:12 03-30-92 38554 <--> 38563
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
RE: What's the excuse for the pants.
I need the waistband to hold my thumb tips.
Msg #38556 Dated 13:12:04 03-30-92 38503 <--> 38602
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Too shay....
Msg #38557 Dated 13:12:08 03-30-92 38505 <--> 38565
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
You will, I hope write a book on showmanship and theory??? Puleeze!
Msg #38558 Dated 13:12:11 03-30-92 38506 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: DESERT RAMBLINGS
Woof! (I won't define what it means to me, but...) it is good!
Msg #38560 Dated 13:12:17 03-30-92 38518 <--> 38634
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: {VIC&F.
You would love my perverse linking ring routine... which I plan to
revive! STay tuned... (Note: My routine is the only one that when
I was booked with Vernon (years ago when he was in prime shape) on
same show... he said, "Let me do my Symphony of the Rings first,
then you follow with your satire... it will go even better!"
He was sooooooooooo right....
Msg #38561 Dated 13:12:24 03-30-92 38520 <--> 38635
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: RDMAGIC AKA IMP!
WONDERFULL.... That is what I needed... to append Replies... sa
I hate go go online with just one or two replies... can save em
up all day ... yipeee...
.
What is the new file NAME?
Msg #38563 Dated 13:12:34 03-30-92 38549 <--> 38564
From: PETE BIRO
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
to keep his cheeks warm.
Msg #38564 Dated 13:12:37 03-30-92 38555 <--> 38566
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Put the pink pants INTO the thumb tip and stick it in your ear.
Whew...almost came out you rear? ARgh... well, you started it!
Append? Gnar!!! Keep your tail curled!
Msg #38565 Dated 13:33:22 03-30-92 38557 <--> 38603
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
I strongly second Pete's motion for a T. A. Water's book on
Showmanship! Please put me on the list for the deluxe, el primo,
autographed, limited, gold-edged edition.
Msg #38566 Dated 13:39:56 03-30-92 38564 <--> 38568
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Hey, dude, I put a thumb tip in my ear and people will be accusing me
of stealing from the Jester.
Ain't had a tail since I was a tadpole.
Msg #38567 Dated 13:49:27 03-30-92 38331 <--> 38640
From: MARVIN STERN
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: IBM SLC
Wouldn't Orange County airport been better to LV for you?
Msg #38568 Dated 13:57:05 03-30-92 38552 <--> 38569
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Pink shirt and orange socks. Where is Dr. Seuss when you need him?
Msg #38569 Dated 13:58:18 03-30-92 38553 <--> 38575
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I always wondered about that.
Msg #38570 Dated 13:59:10 03-30-92 -> 38581
From: MARVIN STERN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE
Fri 11:30. Count me in.
Msg #38575 Dated 14:14:30 03-30-92 38541 <--> 38578
From: MIKE KING
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I'll be there!!!! Ding Dong, the PIG IS DEAD!!!!
Msg #38577 Dated 14:40:59 03-30-92
From: MARVIN STERN
To: BRUCE SANDERCOCK (X)
Re: TRIP
Give me a call on the land-line, when you get back.
Msg #38578 Dated 15:05:21 03-30-92 38568 <--> 38579
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I try not to let my socks show. But if you do some effect that knocks
'em off, I guess you'll see 'em.
Msg #38579 Dated 15:06:44 03-30-92 38569 <--> 38580
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Don't get too excited, Marvin. Most of 'em aren't mini's.
Msg #38580 Dated 15:08:12 03-30-92 38575 <--> 38592
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Great! We will look forward to seeing you at the Pig Wake!
Msg #38581 Dated 15:08:30 03-30-92 38570 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE
Super, Marvin! We'll see you at the Pig Wake!
Msg #38582 Dated 17:01:59 03-30-92 -> 38591
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: NOT EXACTLY MAGIC
I'm looking for some historical information about a non-mage performer.
Does anyone happen to know the birth and death years for ANNA HELD?
Thanks!
Msg #38584 Dated 17:49:52 03-30-92
From: HUGH TURLEY
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC DEALERS
I am interested in a list of retail magic dealers in the U.S.A. Is a
list of dealers available? Where can I write for such a list? If you
know how I can obtain the above I would appreciate your help.
Please leave a message for me or write to me at 4211 Queensbury Road
Hyattsville, Maryland 20781 USA Thanks -Turley
Msg #38586 Dated 19:12:00 03-30-92 38335 <--> 38744
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: FROG CALLED
He did say at the beginningof that bit that this was the public service
portion of the act and was meant to be anti-drug. But at the end of the
bit he said he was "starting to get a buzz". My impressions of the
druggie character had to do with a few comments like that and general
attitude and voice intonations throughout the act. I'm NOT saying he
does drugs. I have known many people who thought it was cool or funny
to play the part.
Msg #38589 Dated 19:17:51 03-30-92 38394 <--> 38929
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: R TURNER
Sorry I could not make the lecture. Will see you another time.
Msg #38590 Dated 19:29:07 03-30-92 -> 38597
From: ANTHONY BLAKE
To: ALL
Re: COPPERFIELD SPECIAL
Thanks to wonder of satellite television, I have been fortunate
to view David Copperfield's new special 24 hours befor it airs
on CBS.
.
I am quite impressed by this years show, as usual beautifully
photographed and produced and the effects are great too! I even
decided to forego the first hour of the Oscar's (tm) to see it
(and I got it on tape-sans commercials). If you would like a
preview review (redundent?) before tomorrow's show let me know
and I'll pop one in a bit later (I'll check back around 10pm
PDT, so those of you on the west coast will get it later tonight
and those on the east will either get it in the wee hours or
tomorrow morning when you check in). If not I will reserve the
review till after the east coast gets to see it tomorrow. Just
drop me a note if your interested.
Tony (aka Visto the Clarevoyant One)
Msg #38591 Dated 20:13:04 03-30-92 38582 <--> 38598
From: LEE THOMPSON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NOT EXACTLY MAGIC
Anna Held - Born 1873, Died 1918
(According to my Almanac...)
S
sg #38592 Dated 20:18:53 03-30-92 38580 <--> 38599
From: MIKE KING
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
O.K. fine. Are you by chance watching the Oscars? They showed how
Peter Pan (Robin Williams) was made to fly via wires. I bet the
Copperfield people are squirming. HA! Talk to ya soon. MIKE.
Msg #38597 Dated 20:52:05 03-30-92 38590 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ANTHONY BLAKE (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD SPECIAL
INCREDIBLE, TONY!!! The East Coast folks will be able to comment
before we see it here on the West Coast anyway, so if you want to steal
their thunder, go ahead and post! Maybe keep a couple of secrets
though!
Msg #38598 Dated 20:54:34 03-30-92 38591 <--> 38601
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: LEE THOMPSON (X)
Re: NOT EXACTLY MAGIC
THANKS, Lee! You really found that in the Almanac? Yep! Son of a
gun! That was the one reference I didn't check - and there is is -
Entertainment Personalities of the Past! Super!
Msg #38599 Dated 20:57:19 03-30-92 38592 <--> 38614
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Nope, no Oscar watching here. Don't worry about the wires - I don't
think people will think about them when they see DC fly tomorrow - it
is very different.
Msg #38600 Dated 21:11:44 03-30-92 -> 39769
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC SOFTWARE
I am a Electrical Engineer with a good amount of programming
experience. If anyone needs any type of technical assistance or has an
idea for an effect using computers or electronics let me know, I may be
able to help.
Msg #38601 Dated 21:41:59 03-30-92 38582 <--> 38616
From: MANNY WELTMAN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: NOT EXACTLY MAGIC
1873? - 1918
Msg #38602 Dated 21:50:20 03-30-92 38499 <--> 38605
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I understand Sheets is a heavy reader. I'll ask if he reads
theory. I understand he finished the Depford Trilogy by Robertson
Davies. Trilogy is
Fifth Business
The Manicore
World of Wonder
Lots to say about magic and a lot of fairly deep stuff. Every
magician should read them!!
.
Understand he also reads "The Art of Wordly Wisdom" by Gracian.
Bob is pretty deep under that facade. Wish I had a copy of his
remarks to a friend who was burned out from performing magic.
Demonstrated a great love for our art.
Msg #38603 Dated 21:50:38 03-30-92 38500 <--> 38606
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
Yeah Pete - that's the idea. Jade is all performance. She knows
theater, whether self-taught or by instinct. Probably the former.
Msg #38604 Dated 21:50:44 03-30-92 38501 <--> 38611
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
The question of my continuance was rhetorical, but thanks for the
kind reply.
Msg #38605 Dated 21:50:51 03-30-92 38502 <--> 38607
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
OK T.A. Very good points. I don't think that the examples are
trying to entertain but to dupe. If people are attracted to
"real" magic, I don't think that this weakness in human nature is
something that should be encouraged. If theivery is a part of
human desire, I don't think that should be encouraged either.
.
More later
Msg #38606 Dated 21:51:02 03-30-92 38505 <--> 38610
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
At a cursory glance, I think Play Production is a better book. It
could be that I know less of the subject, so it would seem more
valid.
.
I do cry at the movies or theater almost all the time. I just
watched the TV version of Broadway Bound and cried at the great
perfomance of Anne Bancroft. I was watching technique but crying
at a great performance. Can't explain.
.
OK if you think, as I don't think Nelms does, that super skill or
mental powers are contexts rather than premises, I'll agree.
.
I feel the puzzle approach is only valid if you do something and
hand the props to someone to try to duplicate the effect.
Puzzling the audience or producing a feeling of great skill is
not presenting a puzzle. The sense of wonder produced by a great
demonstration is a different thing.
Msg #38607 Dated 21:51:24 03-30-92 38507 <--> 38608
From: CY KELLER
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Great thought Jerry. If I had real powers I would feel reduced,
because I was not the cause of the phenomena. I'd surely try to
find an alternative handling.
Msg #38608 Dated 21:51:31 03-30-92 38528 <--> 38609
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
If you agree with my presentation of the card to wallet, it seems
as if we have little argument. I think most great close-
up/platform magic "suggests" real magic. I'm not sure that Nelms
would agree. I can't find "meaning" in the presentation, but it
works.
Msg #38609 Dated 21:51:41 03-30-92 38529 <--> 38617
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Agree that more magicians should read books on theory or
presentation. The argument is that Nelms is NOT THAT BOOK. I
thinkk a reading of Nelms would produce more bad magic than good.
Msg #38610 Dated 21:51:49 03-30-92 38531 <--> 38620
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
Re Jade. So there!! What is the "meaning" of her act. She is a
beautiful, artfully gowned performer who moves gracefully and is
kind enough to amuse us with her performance. She must have read
Fitzkee.
Msg #38611 Dated 21:51:57 03-30-92 38533 <--> 38621
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Skill in presentaton is no more a tool than the hand skill of an
artist. It is the proper use of the tools.
Msg #38612 Dated 21:52:04 03-30-92 38536 <--> 38622
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: SLEEP
Unfair David! That's a reverse ad hominem argument. If you want
to you can read the Various Thoughts section of my Lecture Notes.
I also think someone can learn more from Carney or Klause than
from Nelms who doesn't understand magic.
Msg #38614 Dated 21:52:22 03-30-92 38592 <--> 38639
From: CY KELLER
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
They really didn't explain how the wires worked and did mention
the blue background technique. Besides everyone knew that Mary
Martin used wires. At times you could even see them. I've found
that a great performance can override any previous explanaton of
method. You can show them the key ring and then do the Linking
Rings and they will be sure it wasn't done with a key.
Msg #38616 Dated 22:10:44 03-30-92 38601 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MANNY WELTMAN (X)
Re: NOT EXACTLY MAGIC
Thanks, Manny. I appreciate the help.
Msg #38617 Dated 22:12:29 03-30-92 38607 <--> 38618
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
If you had real powers, you'd try to find an alternative handling? You
and Samantha, huh? Would you also marry a mortal?
Msg #38618 Dated 22:13:58 03-30-92 38608 <--> 38619
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Your card to wallet suggests real magic. But most of the "magic" I see
doesn't. It is puzzles and juggles, and often the performer isn't even
adept at either of those. I too had a little trouble with Nelm's
"meaning" - I didn't think it was the strongest part of the book.
Msg #38619 Dated 22:15:40 03-30-92 38609 <--> 38637
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I guess I just don't agree. I think Nelms makes some very good points.
His section on "pointing" for example would help most magicians. He
says some very thought provoking things.
Incidently, my reading and listening are fairly eclectic. Today I was
listening to Michael Ammar's "Making Magic Memorable" audio.
Completely different, with some excellent thoughts and ideas. Very
worthwhile.
Msg #38620 Dated 22:20:11 03-30-92 38610 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: CASTLE REPORT
I guess we'll have to route your comments on to Jade and ask her if she
prefers Fitzkee to Nelms.
Msg #38621 Dated 22:21:54 03-30-92 38611 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I agree with that!!! ("Skill in presentation is no more than a tool in
the hand skill of an artist. It is the proper use of the tools.").
Msg #38622 Dated 22:23:10 03-30-92 38612 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SLEEP
Nobody ever said I was fair, Cy.
Msg #38623 Dated 22:24:38 03-30-92
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: WILDCARD
at the request of Jim Sisti, I will in the next message try to upload
the mss. I put together on the WILD CARD.
Msg #38624 Dated 22:25:13 03-30-92 -> 38633
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: WILD CARD
Worksheet on the Wild Card for the Oakland Magic Circle
By Pete Biro--February 4, 1992
Probably the most successful commercial packet trick ever marketed
is the WILD CARD. It is striking in effect and capable of an
incredible number of wild variations.
According to one of our favorite experts, the late Gerald Kosky,
WILD CARD was developed from an effect by Brother John Hamman,
called The Mystic Nine, published by Paul Le Paul in 1958 in The
Card Magic of Brother Hamman, pg. 40. The Mystic Nine used no
gimmicked cards and involved the change of nine black cards to nine
red cards with little fuss.
In April of 1962 (Vol. XIX, No. 8, Pg. 89) in Hugard's Magic
Monthly, Peter Kane published a trick called Watch the Ace using
the Hamman Count and four double-faced cards.
Kane's Watch the Ace indeed IS the WILD CARD as we know it.
However, Kane turned four cards over at one time in a packet. He
attributes the turnover move to Bert Allerton, who used it with a
double-faced card to make a change in the spectator's hands. (I
will demonstrate a modern version of this called Versa Plus,
marketed by Ken Brooke). Allerton's routine is described in his
book The Close Up Magician. Don Alan had a handling in his book
Pretty Sneaky. A similar move can be found in Greater Magic, pg.
44, attributed to U.F. Grant.
Anyway... WILD CARD is Peter Kane's.
Frank Garcia is said to have shown WATCH THE ACE to Lou Tannen and
with a slight handling change Kane's trick was renamed WILD CARD
and put on the market! A second version was devised by Lee Grey
using blank cards, with one card cut in two pieces. He called it
Factory Rejects. (Lloyd Jones felt that this was the best use of
the principle).
Fred Kaps worked out a routine (I will show this) with all blank
cards supposed to be his new business cards, but the printer missed
on these... so he signs his name on one card and it appears on all
the others.
The original WILD CARD (and many of its variations) uses the Hamman
Count in the basic routine. This will be demonstrated. Basically it
is a count from the Biddle Grip where you count the first four
cards, show an indifferent fifth card (the WILD CARD) and then four
more cards. In actuality the first and last four cards are the same
shown twice. The switch is made when you show the WILD CARD. The
details of the move can also be found in many books on card magic,
and in particular in The Complete Works of Derek Dingle, the
aforementioned Card Magic of Brother Hamman, and the recent Secrets
of Brother John Hamman--published by Richard Kaufmann.
Some performer's don't like, or cannot do the Hamman Count, and
may, by alternating the cards, use the Glide to deal cards
alternately, face-up and face-down. Dropping the WILD CARD last,
for cover.
Dave Lederman, of New York, uses the alternating card set-up and
corner shorts (ala Svengali deck) to show all cards with like faces
and all cards with backs. Lederman finishes like he is dealing
Poker with one Hold Card and one Face Up. Then drops the Wild Card
in turn, on each pile of two cards, then shows all in the
individual piles alike by using a double lift. Which using a buckle
is very easy to do. Now all the cards are the same. A nice version.
One of the best handlings was shown me by a gambler, using the
Hamman Count set-up but he dealt the cards face-up and face-down
(first card face-up) with a one-handed bottom deal of the face-down
cards (off the back of the packet). This is beautiful. Don't let
the one-handed bottom deal scare you. You don't need to conceal it
and you don't need to do it really well. I will show it with the
Kaps' Business Card Printing effect.
In Ned Rutledge and J.G. Thompson Jr's. Card Party, you will find
two very nice routines. In A Message From Garcia, pg. 51, the glide
set-up is described. Most of the work is done in the hands, in a
fan position, eliminating the turnover move. It's good too, as the
follow up finish shows all the cards with backs. Right after that,
a routine primarily designed for a stand up performance, based on
a popular Spy theme, is described. Again, the turnover move is
eliminated.
Derek Dingle's marketed WILD MOVE will be demonstrated and
discussed, showing that a completely different routine with no
resemblance to the original effect can be developed with the same
principle.
Peter Kane finally got a marketed version out, with what many feel
is the most entertaining and practical version yet. Called the
GYPSY CURSE, this has been featured by such exponents of
sleight-of-hand as Fred Kaps and Derek Dingle. Kaps developed a
version that has yet to see print... and has baffled this writer as
well as Brother Hamman! Kaps also devised a way to do the Hamman
Count using an overhand shuffle, which will be demonstrated.
Shigeo Takagi's fine WILD CARD routine will be available in
manuscript form. Given time, I will try to learn this routine...
but right now... I don't know if I will have time. It is rather
complex and to do several versions of the same trick at one time is
mind boggling (at least for me!). Dave Barry will give it a try.
As Jay Leno says, Last but not least we have Hans Trixer's WILD MAN
WILD. A transplanted Hollander, Trixer, now living in Rhodesia,
South Africa was a good friend of Fred Kaps and Ken Brooke. Wild
Man Wild definitely is...wild, to say the least!
With the change of 10 Blue-backed Jokers to 10 Red-backed ones...
with some interesting changes, Trixer has gone a step beyond the
normal. Wild Man Wild is a marketed effect, and somewhat new to me
and I doubt if I will have time to learn it.
Msg #38625 Dated 22:27:01 03-30-92 -> 38643
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: WILD LOAD
IT LOOKS LIKE IT WORKED... YIPEEE............ BYE BUY
Msg #38626 Dated 22:32:27 03-30-92
From: TERRY LOVE
To: ALL
Re: USED MAGIC
I am looking for a pair of "golden shears" made by Supreme we ahd
we had a pair lifted a st a show and would like to
replace them, also looking to sell a RABBIT RINGER AND A Parker Swan
Doll House both like new, EXCELLENT CONDITION, any one who can help
on the golden shears or has a intrest in the items , can call our
office and leave a message if we are not in.
619-466-4166
ice and leave a message. thThanks
475-7722 9-5pm,.
Msg #38633 Dated 23:26:40 03-30-92 38624 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Pete - you have outdone yourself on Wild Card. I can't wait to
see the Linking Ring Book if this is any indication. The amount
of work is astounding. So much that has not been in print or the
connections made. This far outweighs any other contributions
you've made to magic. That of course includes the Rat Trap and
the thread Himber finish and God knows what else. I used to think
I knew magic. WOW
.
Some comments. I never made the connection with Mystic Nines. The
count should have been a tip off. So four years later Kane comes
out with the routine. Incidentally, most people forget how great
Hugard's was. Did Kane change all of the cards to the SAME card
or to Aces of different suits?
.
Neat tie in of the Allerton move and Versa Plus which was Roy
Johnson's, of course. I think that Martin Gardner had a version
of Allerton in Hugard's at one time. I never could find it, but I
remember it was a great routine. Could have been the same one as
in Close-up Magician. I have never liked the slow changes and
Steward Judah had a neat handling somewhere - Could have been
Apocalypse.
.
Garcia seems to be all over this thing - the original then a
signature version like ? Kaps. Factory Rejects was great. Lee
Grey and Ed Vohrees had bought Kanter's Magic Company. Must agree
with Lloyd Jones. I was completely fooled and bought.
.
The performers who don't like the Hamman Count are the same ones
who can't do it!!!! Meow. I think I've got it Max. The glide is
far inferior. I know - I have trouble with the glide.
.
Dave Lederman - now of the Washington area. A television host - NOT.
Ortiz, Jennings and others have no gimmicked versions. Need
references? Isn't Takagi's version in his book? It's late and too
tired to check at the moment.
Msg #38634 Dated 0:13:27 03-31-92 38560 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: {VIC&F.
OK when do we get to see da Biro Rings O'Mystery ???
.
Are going to be in town for the LB Grand Prix ? Let's do lunch !
Msg #38635 Dated 0:13:29 03-31-92 38561 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: RDMAGIC AKA IMP!
Look for the date - I didn't get it uploaded last night I crashed.
Will be named RDMAGIC.ZIP with todays date 3-30-92.
Msg #38636 Dated 0:13:31 03-31-92 38525 <--> 38649
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: "BOY'S LIFE" MAGAZINE
You could always tell them your son is Boy Scout - that's who it is
directed at.
Msg #38637 Dated 0:13:33 03-31-92 38530 <--> 38650
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
If a person could do real magic, would they want to pass the castle
audition ??
Msg #38638 Dated 0:13:35 03-31-92 38534 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BRAIN & MIND SYMPOSIUM
The view from the front of the castle is wonderful, can see the
skyline in the background without distraction.
.
Sorry, you won't be able to attend. Hopefully, the business meeting
will be cancelled and you show-up.
Msg #38639 Dated 0:13:38 03-31-92 38575 <--> 38681
From: JERRY BURTON
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Great Mike - don't forget your Porky Pig snout. Mine is pink satin !
Msg #38640 Dated 0:13:40 03-31-92 38567 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: IBM SLC
OC or LB would be much better, but mucho more dinero. I fly cheap
or walk !
Msg #38643 Dated 0:17:47 03-31-92 38625 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WILD LOAD
WOW! WOW-WOW-WOW! GREAT SUFF, PETE! THANKS!!!
Msg #38646 Dated 0:26:00 03-31-92 -> 38699
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ADDRESS CHANGE
Please update your records -- I have a new mailing address:
7095 Hollywood Blvd. - #382
Hollywood, California 90028
Msg #38649 Dated 0:30:25 03-31-92 38636 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: "BOY'S LIFE" MAGAZINE
Burton - don't you keep up with court cases and stuff? They can't sell
Boy's Life to boys anymore - it is against the law.
Msg #38650 Dated 0:32:06 03-31-92 38637 <--> 38651
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Of course if a person could do real magic they would want to pass the
Castle audition, even if they had to learn magician's magic to do it!
Two reasons:
A) A "real magician" (no offense to James Lewis) would find the place
to be the ultimate comedy club - what could possibly be funnier?
(We will, for the moment, leave aside my argument that the place
is turning into nothing but one anyway).
B) The Festalbord is WONDERFUL, and even real magicians have to eat.
Msg #38651 Dated 1:02:32 03-31-92 38605 <--> 38654
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I would presume that your thinking that the attraction of people to
real magic being a weakness indicates that you do not think that real
magic exists.
Msg #38653 Dated 0:52:51 03-31-92 -> 38670
From: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN
To: ALL
Re: HELLO
Hello everybody.
I just wanted to introduce myself and say hello (Also a couple of
questions.) I've been doing magic for years now but have only
recently tried out and been accepted as a castle member.
I very much have enjoyed reading messages that you all have posted.
A couple of quick questions for now. First, does anybody know the
address or phone number of the MANUFACTURER of the small red/white
color changing knives, the three knife version? My bird recently
chewed up the white/red knife and I like to see if the Manufacturer
will repair or replace it at a nominal charge. (Anybody want to
buy a bird?)
Second of all, About 3 years ago I saw a performer in the palace.
I don't know the technical name for his art, but he basically was
a master pick pocket. As I remember, he was an probably 40 years old
or so. He was very funny. He would have about 15 or 20 people stand
up, and he went around talking to them, robbing them as he went.
Wallets from pants, from purses, watches, neckties, it seemed like
anything was fair game to him. The volunteers who were standing
had not idea of what was going on. The rest of the audience
was in complete stitches, cracking up histerically.
I'm sure there are many guys (& gals) who do this, but if anybody
might know whom I talking about, I would love to get his name.
Thats about it, except for one last favor.
A friend of a friend of mine has a child who was seriously injured
by a dog bite. The kid is in the hospital or is slowly recovering.
He has always loved magic and the mother asked if we
knew a magicial who had a picture of himself that he could
autograph with his simpathies and send to the child. The mother
said this would absolutely make the kids day. So, I'm passing this
request on to someone who may have a nice photo, maybe some
nice promotional photo or something. Let me know and I'll get
you his address.
Thanks everybody. Talk to you later. Raymond.
Msg #38654 Dated 1:18:05 03-31-92 38507 <--> 38698
From: T A WATERS
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Actually, the one study that I know of by an academic seemed to
indicate that the majority of magicians DO believe in real magic -- the
vocal minority like Randi to the contrary.
Msg #38655 Dated 1:24:55 03-31-92
From: SCOTT ALCALAY
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: THATS ENTERTAINMENT!
MSG #38556 Dated 13:12:04 03-30-92 38503 <-
Re: msg. #38481<-> 38556 DMS - Report #2
The other night some regular guests were at the restaurant that I
perform at. They asked me if I believe in real magic and what I
thought
of our good friends Penn Gillette (Sp.) and his silent partner Teller.
My
opinion of real magic was "what the eye sees the mind will believe"
and
P&T are funny but their ethics are not to my liking. Cy, I think the
general public does want to believe and that if you aim to deceive
well
they will respect you. (As holds fact with the latest winners of the
now
past DMS.)
I have the feeling that people who watch geodedic or whatever
"real" magic is called, feel insulted that a performer would
think they would believe "real" magic.
I Have no idea what the word geodedic means as it is not listed in the
thesaurus I use. If you bill yourself as a magician, magical
entertainer,
or "psychic" entertainer then the public will be made aware that what
you do you call magic. However if you do conjure up the "spirits," that
is a sanctimonious
ceremony not to be accepted as entertainment. (Sounds like fun, eh?)
What ever happened to all the fun in the world?
JERRY BURTON: As far as people wanting to believe in real magic, there
are those that do and those that don't. I like to shake-up those that
don't.
I often times find a lot of folks up here in the bay area are not
exposed to the same good magic that you L.A.ites get at the Castle.
When they see something that fools them, they form their own opinion.
They see S&R, DC or LB on a big stage, of course they think its magic.
It
is the magic of the theater and sense of deception to the eye that
makes the magic.
But what do we now call entertainment? What does the lay audience want
to see and what type of venue will the magician be allowed to work in?
Will there be more close up gallery available or will it be limited to
stage sets, cheep comedy club venues, and overcrowded restaurants. Even
though Dan'l Sylvester's act was not exactly rave reviews, he does have
an outlet for his brand of humor. It may be limited, however their are
clubs that attract that type of audience and if Dan does it "well,"
then that's entertainment.
Msg #38657 Dated 1:31:00 03-31-92
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SLEEP
MAGIC!-NL Tue 31 Mar 92 03:05
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
Definately, no charisma, no change whatsoever. No study will ever
give that special something. But those who have it.....a little
study now and again can be helpfull, at least I think so. Even
when the study just makes a bit better that what comes naturally,
it is definately worth it.
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #38658 Dated 1:31:07 03-31-92
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
MAGIC!-NL Tue 31 Mar 92 03:09
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
No you were not brutal, just correct. But the truth can be at
times hard. Cannot understand they blamed you instead of giving
the blame to the truth. Oh if we could just stay in our fantasy
worlds without ever being disturbed by reality..........
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #38659 Dated 1:31:15 03-31-92 -> 38675
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: SLEEP
MAGIC!-NL Tue 31 Mar 92 03:11
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
That's exactly how I feel about it. The point is not so much to
agree or disagree. The points brought forth are great food for
thought, and thought is great for etc etc.......
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #38660 Dated 1:31:22 03-31-92 -> 38702
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SLEEP
MAGIC!-NL Tue 31 Mar 92 03:24
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
Why do you disagree? Don't you think that indeed illusions(as
Nelms defines them) are better than just tricks? Agreed, the
situations one is booked in when the booker sees you as a
"regular" magician, then "tricks" might be more of what is
expected of you, and the
performance of illusions (Nelms type Illusions) might not be what
they thought they hired. Do you really think that tricks can make
as deep an impact as
illusions? Illusions might be more impracticle, because the
booker expects tricks. However if you would find a way to let
yourself be knowwn for illusions, then you might become a
different sort of
entertainer, and I think it might have more impact. Uri Geller in
many ways was doing illusions by Nelms definition, he certainly
made impact. If you are seen as a different type of entertainer,
than
illusions might be the exact thing people would expect of you,
and I think that it would have a lot of impact, more at least
than tricks. Now if this is what you want to do is a different
subject, may be you would never like to do that type of thing,
but that does not
mean that Nelms is either talking nonsense here or that it has
not a lot of value.
May be you do not feel that "just tricks" is not a lesser form of
art, but I feel it is unquestionably a lot harder to make "tricks"
a good form of theatre than it is to make theatre wwith
illusions.Also, do not forget that you do not have to adopt
Nelms's style. Many tricks can be turned into illusions by rather
small
modifications. Many examples Nelms gives are almost like run of
the mill tricks, except that they do have something extra, a
theatrical element.
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #38661 Dated 1:31:36 03-31-92 -> 38703
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SLEEP
MAGIC!-NL Tue 31 Mar 92 03:27
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
What Nelms means by meaning is pretty clear to me. My only
problem is that I do not understand Bill's problem.
What is so unclear?
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #38663 Dated 7:11:54 03-31-92
From: PETE BIRO
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: GENII REBUTTAL
Dante (and ALL) the next message I file will be for William Larsen, a
copy will also be mailed.It is a rebuttal to his GENII SPEAKS about
conventions. It will be labelled to ALL, but is for Dante to print in
Genii. Thanks.
Msg #38664 Dated 7:13:07 03-31-92 -> 38734
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: GENII REBUTTAL
Dear Bill:
.
Indirectly, you hit me personally in your "Genii Speaks" column
of March 1992 when talking about convention bookings.
.
I disagree with you and offer the following rebuttal.
You say, "Then there are what I consider the "political"
conventions..... they seem to cut every corner they can...and
deal with very large amounts of money, although you wouldn't know
it if you knew what they offer their talent."
.
First, and I can ONLY deal with the I.B.M., as their talent
chairman over the past number of years, but you have missed it
completely here.
.
Yes, the I.B.M. is a "political" organization. But NO, the
Convention Committee is NOT. We are completely independent from
the "officers" of the I.B.M. Matter of fact on the few occasions
I have been pressured to book a certain act by a "major"
officer... that act has generally been DREADFUL. I no longer take
suggestions from anyone in the political stream.
.
You say "we hate each other" -- I don't even know who is running
the S.A.M. so how could I even have a feeling toward them? And to
be honest with you when booking acts I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO WORKS
THE S.A.M. CONVENTIONS... I PURPOSELY don't read their ads I
don't care, because I don't feel that what someone else does
should have any effect on what I do. I base the I.B.M. talent
selection on what I think will produce the best balanced show and
try to bring forth acts we have not seen before, or have not seen
in at least 3-4 years.
.
At one time I approached Hank Morehouse (my counterpart at the
S.A.M.) about "sharing travel costs" to bring some very expensive
talent from overseas to work both conventions. He didn't want to
know! He has a couple of times jumped all over me for booking an
act that he has hired. I have NEVER gone after an act he has
booked. On one occasion James Dimmare worked both conventions. I
did not call James. He called me, at the last minute, when
something he had going fell through and at just the same time an
act from Russia (the Grand Prix winners from Belgian FISM)
canceled. James said he wanted to work the I.B.M., I had an open
spot and said OK. It was too late to do any advertising. Later
Hank called me for "stealing one of his acts".
.
About your comment: "what they offer the talent."
.
Bill, I have to tell you, if anything I have overpaid! Our budget
and talent fee information is confidential. But I can tell you
this. Acts like the Great Tomsoni, Otto Wesseley, Rudy Coby, Paul
Daniels, DOUG HENNING with 45 minutes at Long Beach, Carl
Ballantine, Avner the Eccentric, Mr. Electric... the list goes
on... have all told me that the I.B.M. pays them well and treats
them well. I pride myself in bringing more "commercial" full-time
professionals to the stage than anyone before me in the talent
job. And to do this IS NOT CHEAP. And I am not cheap!
.
At one point I got a message forwarded from, the then Secretary
of the I.B.M., Roger Crabtree, complaining that I paid an act too
much... that the act would have worked for much less since he was
going to the convention anyway. ARgh!
.
Frankly, I believe the asking prices for a great number of acts
is INSANE. I am negotiation with one act now, a single person...
one guy... he says he "usually gets $10,000" but will do it for
$5,000.00, two round trip East Coast Airfares and two rooms. Plus
excess baggage costs. That's almost $7,000.00. (The second room
is for his manager)!
.
I can still remember Harry Blackstone showing up at a PCAM
convention and doing a great show. What did it cost? Nothing. The
guys in the business in the early days used to show up at the
conventions and work for the FUN OF IT. I must say, his son,
Harry Jr. has treated us the same way. At the I.B.M. in St. Louis
he worked on two spots and he didn't even want me to reimburse
his expenses.
.
So, William, there you have some "thoughts" (you said "this topic
deserves a lot more thought") and I hope you will take a look at
my side of the story. If you come to Salt Lake City, I'll be glad
to show you, in confidence, some of our budgets and you will be
very surprised.
.
Kindest regards, Pete Biro
.
That's the end of my message. Any comments from other would be
appreciated. Adios...
Msg #38667 Dated 7:41:47 03-31-92
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: MTN
Hi, Burt!
Was really sorry to hear about the people being ripped off like
that. It makes it hard for the people who really DO want to make
a go of having a network for magicians. MTN is based at a travel
agency in La Jolla, CA. We have been in business for 15 years and
all of us have over 10 years experience in the industry in some
form or another, either airlines, agency or cruise. Every one of
us specializes in a different form of travel. And my specialty is
finding the lowest airfares available and leisure travel. We are
backed by IATAN and of course have ARC (Airline Reporting
Commission) credentials. For the most part, we have survived the
recession and we are doing a good volume of business. We have a
solid reputation in the community and we aren't going to pack up
and run off to Mexico with anyone's money. As in ANY business that
deals with the public there are always going to be some lousy scams
that make the good businesses look pretty bad. But if you have a
good reputation and have built a solid client base then you can
offer people an honest deal and they'll know that. All I can offer
is my best and the knowledge that I MYSELF want to do the right
thing for my clients. That's my personal promise to anyone who
comes to the MTN for travel needs.
Msg #38669 Dated 8:19:17 03-31-92 -> 38735
From: JIM SISTI
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Thanks, Pete... You should check out the new Racherbaumer book. Some
interesting work on Wild Card (using not only the Glide and Hamman
Count but the Veeser Count as well).
Msg #38670 Dated 8:31:28 03-31-92 38653 <--> 38672
From: MARVIN STERN
To: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN (X)
Re: HELLO
Ray: I have Rabbit in the Hat lapel pins and will be happy to send the
kid one. Post his address. How old is he?
My youngest son, was only about 2 or 3 when attacked by a Great Dane,
ripped his check and tore his ear half off. Luckly I was at home when
it happened and the surgeon did a great job. But it sure ages a
person.
Wish him well from everyone on MAGIC .
Msg #38672 Dated 9:34:10 03-31-92 38653 <--> 38679
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN (X)
Re: HELLO
Good to have you join us, Raymond. I'm sure someone will have some
answers for you and maybe a picture or two.
Msg #38675 Dated 10:09:09 03-31-92 38659 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
TO: Tommy Wonder
VIA: MAGIC-NL
Exactly! It isn't necessary, or even desirable, to agree with
everything one reads or gets into discussions about. As a matter of
fact, the best thoughts may come from disagreeing with something since
agreement doesn't cause as much mental activity.
Msg #38679 Dated 10:50:37 03-31-92 38670 <--> 38682
From: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: HELLO
Thanks Marvin. Your thoughtfulness will be appriciated.
I think he is about 9 years old. Here is his name & address.
Justin Davis
720 S. Lashley Ln.
Boulder, Co. 803030
You could also send it to me, and I'll forward the pin and note to
Justin, maybe by then someone will send a photo that I could
include as well. But either way you want to do it is just fine.
Thanks again. Raymond
Raymond Goldstein
15320 Earlham St.
Pacific Palisades, Ca. 90272
Msg #38680 Dated 11:24:13 03-31-92 38472 <-
From: JOSEPH SELPH
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: DOVES
I'm in the Los Angeles area and will have a couple available in May.
You are welcome to them if you haven't found any others by then!
Msg #38681 Dated 11:26:27 03-31-92 38541 <--> 38683
From: JOSEPH SELPH
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Would LOVE to attend the wake for the "pig", but I've got a gig and
cannot be there, However, please feel free to express my condolences
(i.e. extreme happiness) to the pigs' next of kin!
Msg #38682 Dated 11:31:39 03-31-92 38653 <--> 38684
From: JOSEPH SELPH
To: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN (X)
Re: HELLO
1) Can't help you with the knife problem, but I was curious what kind
of bird you have!
2) I am very well-known in the L.A. area as "Joe The Clown", performing
magic at children's parties. I'd be happy to send an autographed pix
of "JTC" if you deem it appropriate! Just let me know!
Msg #38683 Dated 12:09:37 03-31-92 38681 <--> 38967
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JOSEPH SELPH (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Sorry you won't be able to join us for the Pig Wake, Joseph. Glad to
hear that you will be working instead! Hopefully, the Pig is an orphan
and has no next of kin!
Msg #38684 Dated 13:52:06 03-31-92 38679 <--> 38697
From: MARVIN STERN
To: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN (X)
Re: HELLO
My pleasure. But need the CORRECT zip code for Justin.
Msg #38685 Dated 15:09:09 03-31-92 -> 38686
From: ANTHONY BLAKE
To: ALL
Re: COPPERFIELD REVUE
Well, here it is. The first review of the 1992 David Copperfield
Special. This will not be an in depth review as many of you will
not have seen the show before you read this, and I want you to
enjoy the show as well as have some surprises (it's not fun to
give away the ending to anything). As I stated in an earlier
message, I viewed this show in an early satellite uplink on
Monday evening (I found it accidentally while trying to get the
originating Oscar (tm) feed).
David's guest host this year is James Earl Jones, who briefly
appears throughout the show building up the "grand illusion"
whih closes the special. This year's show is entitled "The Magic
Of David Copperfield XIV -Flying - Live The Dream" and is again
sponsored by Clorox. The show was taped at the Broward County
Performing Arts Center (I think that's in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl)
and it is a beautiful venue...very reminiscent of European opera
houses.
.
The show begins with a large scrim (curtain) painted with a
picture of Icarus rising and a rather antique elevator lowering
from the fly's (rafters). The elevator stops above the stage
(about 10 ft.) and the doors open and the side covering roll up
to show it empty. The elevator then cover's itself back up (this
is fairly hard to describe in words) and there is a light within
the elevator that comes on and then you see the figure (in
silhouette) of David appear and then the doors open and he is
there (this is a suspended shadow box illusion - Doug Henning
did basically the same thing some years back in one of his
specials).
.
David then shows a hawk and talks about flying and then
proceeds to an illusion where he is placed in a triangular-body
shaped box where upon two women are able to pass their bodies
through his (I may have trouble with this as my tape kind of
screwed up here). This is an illusion that the Pendragons have
been doing for sometime, and which they debuted on national
television on the ill-fated "International Magic Awards" in
1990. Next is a mind reading piece in which all the audience
ellicited answers are written on a brick wall with spray paint
(ala grafitti) and then match a large piece of paper which had
been in view all the time (I see a touch of Max Maven here - who
incidentally is thanked in the credits). I won't give you the
whole effect here as I want you to enjoy this one...it's very
good and I'm sure were going to see a great amount of copying
within our field soon.
.
David next shows an illusion that he says he has been working on
in his warehouse. He lays in a long box, his feet extending from
one end and his head from another and closes the lid(s) over
himself. His hands protrude from the top and he proceeds to
squeeze himself down to a very tiny space (approx. 1 ft.) with
his head still out one end and his feet (moving) out the other.
He then reverses the process and comes good as new. The next
piece is a close-up effect where David goes out into the
audience and picks a volunteer and they sit on a pair of stools
in one of the aisles. David gives his pretty female volunteer a
pad and tells her to draw a symbol on it (he doesn't watch). In
his hand is an aluminum pie plate. After she had done so and
turned the pad face down on her lap, David takes some ink and
places it in plate and with his and the audience's mental power
the ink proceed to turn itself into the symbol (again, I will
not divulge the whole effect, this has to be seen to be
believed), this is incredible (and I'm sure it will be on the
market very, very soon - this may be the next "Misled" mass
seller).
.
This is followed by an effect where the late Orson Welles
performs a trick via a 50 or 60 year old film clip. David
interracts with the filmed version of a young Welles, where upon
Welles instructs him to find an assistant in the audience, who
then shuffles a deck of cards and the selects (along with a male
volunteer) a single card which later Welles divulges. This is
truly a devinely inspired effect, filled with suprises and it
leaves you with a "how-did-they-do-that" feeling. The piece
that follows is another home-audience interactive piece, much
like the one he did last year with the train. This piece is one
where people at home get to pick a symbol and David finds the
correct one (this piece is obvious Max Maven - shades of "Mind
Games"). This is followed by the grand finale...David flies!
.
David begins his peice by bringing a whole section of the
audience up to the stage to see the illusion up close, further
choosing a man and a woman (incredibly, and cutsey called
"Bambi"). The man inspects a clear plexiglass box (very large)
to make sure that it is whole (more on this later)
David then shows a short film of people who have wanted
to fly on their own (without machinery). This gives him time to
go backstage and get "rigged". Then the curtain goes up and we
see David reclining on the floor holding the hawk, which flys
away and David begins to fly...all over, up, down, sides ways
(Superman would be jealous). He flies on and through hoops, and
then inside the sealed plexiglass box. After a brief black out
David proceeds to fly theough the air with Bambi in his arms
(ala Superman I) and this is a real crowd pleaser. After he
brings her back to "earth", he ends the segment by giving her a
rose and a kiss and then flying off again, whereupon the hawk
land on his hand in mid-air and they fly of into the wings
together.
.
This has got to be one of the best Copperfield specials ever. No
hokey gimmick pieces, no lame what will David do next? effect,
pure solid magic throughout. I thoroughly enjoyed this one and
am sore I missed his engagement at the Wiltern Theater in L.A.
earlier this year (but I'll catch him in Santa Barbara later
this year). Although I understand the technical requirements of
making David fly, it made me believe that he was really doing
it. I will definately be watching it again this evening
(probably in all three time zones - via satellite) and will be
watching the tape for some time.
.
I have rushed throught this preview review so that you can get
an advance glimpse at the show. If there are any spelling
problems or if I'm incorrect in some places please forgive me,
or at least make the punishment fit the crime!
.
TONY (aka Siskel and Ebert)
Msg #38686 Dated 16:13:00 03-31-92 38685 <--> 38692
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ANTHONY BLAKE (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD REVUE
Thank you, Tony! (aka "Star of Stage, Scream, and Terror-vision").
That was a perfect pre-review! Just enough revealed, just enough
concealed.
Now we'll have to wait until after 6 p.m. Pacific Time to start seeing
what everyone else thinks.
Msg #38692 Dated 17:36:03 03-31-92 38685 <--> 38693
From: PETE BIRO
To: ANTHONY BLAKE (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD REVUE
Review sounds just like the show he did at Caesars Palace in Vegas.
Great stuff...
Msg #38693 Dated 17:36:07 03-31-92 38686 <--> 38696
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD REVUE
When does the show air in California... I don't got no TV guide...
ARgh... hope I don't miss it... well, i saw it live... rgh...
Msg #38695 Dated 18:21:55 03-31-92 -> 38715
From: JOHN JOLLY
To: ALL
Re: DC FLYING
WOW!!!!!
I wanted to cry, it was wonderful!!
not you, Pete, the other guy.
You'll like it.
jj
......................!pooof!
Msg #38696 Dated 19:08:21 03-31-92 38693 <--> 38716
From: ANTHONY BLAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD REVUE
Pete...
Show airs at 8:00pm pacific time via CBS (don't know what the station
would be up north).
Msg #38697 Dated 19:10:51 03-31-92 38653 <--> 38727
From: ANTHONY BLAKE
To: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN (X)
Re: HELLO
Possibility is that the person you saw in the palace is the one and
only Ricki Dunn.
.
And while I am currently out of photo's I'd be glad to send him a nice
letter so drop the address...
Tony
Msg #38698 Dated 19:19:42 03-31-92 38619 <--> 38700
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
OK at present we agree to disagree.
.
Ammar's tape on Making Magic Memorable is GREAT. I think it is
printed in his big book also.
Msg #38699 Dated 19:19:50 03-31-92 38646 <--> 38710
From: CY KELLER
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ADDRESS CHANGE
Now that you've moved Max, I'm the only one in Apartment 1106.
Msg #38700 Dated 19:19:56 03-31-92 38651 <--> 38701
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Quite correct T.A. I don't hold with WICCA. I don't believe in
crystals, pyramids or any New Age items. I DID go to Stonehenge
one morning and nothing happened. There may be something to be
said about placebos. People who believe may see things happen.
Msg #38701 Dated 19:20:04 03-31-92 38556 <--> 38706
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I don't understand the sentence beginning "Cy...."
Why are sanctimonious ceremonies "fun"?
Since I work close-up and platform venues, my interest in
entertainment is in having a few laughs and implanting a sense of
wonder. I usually don't have time for lengthly introductions or
scene setting.
Msg #38702 Dated 19:20:14 03-31-92 38660 <--> 38713
From: CY KELLER
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
.
TO: Tommy Wonder
VIA: MAGIC-NL
.
I think my problem is that I am hired to do tricks. I think if
they are well done, there is a sense of wonder.
.
I have ethical proplems with Geller or mentalists who actually
claim to do "real" magic. Charlatanism is not my bag.
.
It may be more difficlut to make tricks theatre, but close-up and
platform venues are quite different from stage work. I don't
think they are lesser on this account. I believe that close-up is
the highest form of our art.
Msg #38703 Dated 19:20:33 03-31-92 38661 <--> 38714
From: CY KELLER
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
.
TO: Tommy Wonder
VIA: MAGIC-NL
.
Well maybe you can explain "meaning" to me. Preferably the page
and paragraph. I'm not sure what problem of Bill's you are
referring to.
Msg #38706 Dated 19:35:43 03-31-92 38698 <--> 38709
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Yes, the transcript of Making Magic Memorable is in Michael's "big
book." But they frown on reading large tomes on the freeway.
Msg #38708 Dated 20:12:27 03-31-92 -> 38719
From: CY KELLER
To: ALL
Re: TRADE SHOW
I have returned from a FOSE computer trade show in D.C. Four
magicians working.
.
PAUL GERTNER worked for Pitney Bowes. Had a small stage and
seating for maybe 20 people. Deck marked on the side and Faro
shuffles. Bill cahnge to $100.00. Borrowed bill and selected card
found in envelope. Very soft sell with excellent tie-in to
sponsor's program.
.
ALAN NGUYEN worked for Welcom Software. Miser's Dream with
palming coins, coin manipulation and production of fake bills.
Fair tie-in patter.
.
MARK PHILIPS worked for Kelly Services. A very bubbly performer.
Good technique. Oil and Water, Shrinking Card Case (also used by
Gertner), Cups and Balls - Much of Ammar routine - maybe all.
Card in envelope.
.
TIM CONNOVER worked for Cannon. Most everything mental. I thought
I knew something of this area but he fooled me completely and
with great presentation. Thought of cards were named, a
spectator's birthdate was named, superb blindfold routine and a
great 3 paperback book test. There was also a card stab and
changing of bills from 1 to 5 to 20 to 100 based on the Kaps
method. I hadn't seen Tim for some ten years and, even though he
was great then, he is TOPS now. Always a good tip with people
eating it up.
Msg #38709 Dated 20:14:06 03-31-92 38619 <--> 38711
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
OK at present we agree to disagree.
.
Ammar's tape on Making Magic Memorable is GREAT. I think it is
printed in his big book also.
Msg #38710 Dated 20:14:14 03-31-92 38646 <--> 38764
From: CY KELLER
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ADDRESS CHANGE
Now that you've moved Max, I'm the only one in Apartment 1106.
Msg #38711 Dated 20:14:20 03-31-92 38651 <--> 38712
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Quite correct T.A. I don't hold with WICCA. I don't believe in
crystals, pyramids or any New Age items. I DID go to Stonehenge
one morning and nothing happened. There may be something to be
said about placebos. People who believe may see things happen.
Msg #38712 Dated 20:14:28 03-31-92 38556 <--> 38717
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I don't understand the sentence beginning "Cy...."
Why are sanctimonious ceremonies "fun"?
Since I work close-up and platform venues, my interest in
entertainment is in having a few laughs and implanting a sense of
wonder. I usually don't have time for lengthly introductions or
scene setting.
Msg #38713 Dated 20:14:38 03-31-92 38660 <--> 38817
From: CY KELLER
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
.
TO: Tommy Wonder
VIA: MAGIC-NL
.
I think my problem is that I am hired to do tricks. I think if
they are well done, there is a sense of wonder.
.
I have ethical proplems with Geller or mentalists who actually
claim to do "real" magic. Charlatanism is not my bag.
.
It may be more difficlut to make tricks theatre, but close-up and
platform venues are quite different from stage work. I don't
think they are lesser on this account. I believe that close-up is
the highest form of our art.
Msg #38714 Dated 20:14:57 03-31-92 38661 <--> 38818
From: CY KELLER
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
.
TO: Tommy Wonder
VIA: MAGIC-NL
.
Well maybe you can explain "meaning" to me. Preferably the page
and paragraph. I'm not sure what problem of Bill's you are
referring to.
Msg #38715 Dated 20:54:02 03-31-92 38695 <--> 38726
From: PETE BIRO
To: JOHN JOLLY (X)
Re: DC FLYING
ARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGHARGH
ARGH
ARGH
.
ARGHFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
.
NO FLYIN IN N. CALLY... ARGH ARGH ARGH... BASKETBALL GAME...
CRY
FOO
WEEP
ARGH... WHAT CAN I DO??? ARGH...
.
DO ANYBODY HERE IN NORCAL KNOW IF DAVID THE C IS GONNA BE ON AT
ALL? i DON'T GET NO TV GUIDE AND HE AIN'T ON TONITE... BASKETBALL
ARGH
ARGH
.
THEY ONLY NEED TO SHOW THAT LAST 30 SECONDS OF BASKETBALL...
ARGH
ARGH.
FFFFOOOOEEEEYYYYY
Msg #38716 Dated 20:54:23 03-31-92 38696 <--> 38721
From: PETE BIRO
To: ANTHONY BLAKE (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD REVUE
BASKETBALL
Msg #38717 Dated 20:54:26 03-31-92 38701 <--> 38731
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Sounds good to me. My spies tell me you know what you be doing!
Msg #38719 Dated 20:54:32 03-31-92 38708 <--> 38725
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Thanks for the info on the trade show. Interesting... veddy inter-
esting... Have not seen connover....mmmm
Msg #38721 Dated 21:50:00 03-31-92 38716 <--> 38772
From: ANTHONY BLAKE
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD REVUE
Pete...
Don't understand what you mean by basketball, other than maybe they are
showing the local NBA team on the San Fran CBS affiliate. The show
aired at 8:00pm tonight down here on our CBS O&O.
Msg #38722 Dated 22:02:09 03-31-92 -> 38732
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: ALL
Re: COPPERFIELD SPECIAL
I have just finished watching David Copperfield's special. I am so
overcome with emotion I can hardly write this, because it wasn't
just another TV special. It was a masterpiece. It went beyond
television to reach right into your home, your mind and your heart.
For one hour, you were set free. Every day problems seemed to slip
away as you became lost in a world of fantasy. Or was it real?
I'd like to think it was.
The opening combined just the right touch of mystery and intrigue
as we pondered man's attempt at flight. Combined with the resonant
bass of James Earl Jone's voice you could feel yourself being swept
into a dream world of flight. Remember all those dreams you had as
a child, wanting to fly like the wind? You didn't outgrow them,
did you? David let's you relive them.
The choreography was superb and it especially came into play when
David's body was miraculously penetrated by one of his female
dancers. The illusion was beautifully done.
We also had fun. Other special's have had some lighter moments,
but this year David seemed much more relaxed. He looked like he
was genuinely enjoying himself and the audience seemed to tune into
this. If he was nervous, it never showed and it was a gentle,
humorous David that flawlessly performed a grafitti effect, and an
ink blot mysteriously took the shape of a drawing by a spectator.
We even had a visitor from the Great Beyond! Orson Welles himself
paid a visit and even did a card trick for a very surprised
audience. Of course he appeared via video, but the effect was done
in such a way that it did not appear to be contrived in any way.
It was as entertaining as it was amazing.
Good things come in small packages. We have compacted soap powder,
soft drinks and even computers. And now, thanks to the miracles of
magic, we can have a Compact Copperfield. You just put him in this
nifty little gizmo, a few minor adjustments and WOW! A perfectly
portable, pocket sized prestidigitator! The family LOVED this one!
Once again we got our own chance to do some magic. There was a
brief struggle as to who was actually going to perform the "touch
your screen" illusion until I gently reminded them that this was
being taped and we could replay it. Our 7 year old was chosen and
she hesitantly touched the screen, as if the fragile moment, like
a magic bubble, would burst. She giggled as she moved around the
screen, and when the moment of truth came, she exclaimed "Well, how
did he do THAT!?"
The clips of would be flyers were amusing, if not a little sad in
that they all had the same dream. And none came close. Most ended
in failure and a few met with near catastrophe.
Then something wonderful happened. Amidst a stunned audience he
flew. He just did it. David took your heart and mind in the palm
of his hand a flew with it. It was the most beautiful and
incredible illusion I have ever seen. It left you breathless,
filled with awe and wanting to stand up and shout from the
housetops, to cheer and to weep David's glorious success.
I watched David as he performed this and I knew one thing for
certain. He had worked months, maybe even years to accomplish
this. He had probably lost sleep going over and over the details.
He had rehearsed it hundreds of times, trying, perfecting, building
and living it every hour and minute of his day. And when it all
came together, when he rose from the stage and defied gravity, I
knew one thing was certain. David Copperfield had never been
happier. y
Msg #38723 Dated 22:00:25 03-31-92 -> 38733
From: TERRY LOVE
To: ALL
Re: PIG WAKE ????
If I have been reading right, this is to celebrate the leavings of that
horrible red metal thing, Eh? Is this only open to Castle members, or
to anyone who has had their eyes offended by this blight? I would like
some more info on the day and time and what it takes to be there for
this sacred occasion. Thanks!
Msg #38725 Dated 22:37:15 03-31-92 38708 <--> 38781
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Thanks for the report, Cy. I think you just did our first real trade
show magic review! I think very few of those have ever been done.
The magazines all take a shot at reviewing Vegas shows, but seldom
trade show work.
By the way, perhaps you are a bit modest - is it reasonable to suspect
that you were working too?
Msg #38726 Dated 22:40:28 03-31-92 38715 <--> 38933
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC FLYING
Oh, NO!!! They preempted DAVID COPPERFIELD in your neighborhood for a
lousy basketball game??? Hopefully, maybe they just delayed it - call
the station AND RAISE HELL.
Msg #38727 Dated 22:40:56 03-31-92 38653 <--> 38740
From: STAN LAKE
To: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN (X)
Re: HELLO
The pickpocket you saw at the Castle could have been Ricki Dunn or
perhaps David Avadon. I hope the hospitalized child gets lots of
autographed pictures and recovers soon! Nice to have you on board.
Msg #38731 Dated 22:45:47 03-31-92 38700 <--> 38736
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
And, of course -- things may happen, and those who see them may believe
they did...
Msg #38732 Dated 22:45:24 03-31-92 38722 <--> 38773
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD SPECIAL
Well said, Stacey! And CONGRATULATIONS on your article in this month's
M A G I C magazine! I just got it and haven't read it yet, but saw
your name right up there in the Table of Contents!
Msg #38733 Dated 22:46:23 03-31-92 38723 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TERRY LOVE (X)
Re: PIG WAKE ????
Yes, the Pig Wake is to celebrate the removal of that horrible red (and
black) metal thing. It is open to anyone, not jut Castle members. BUT
if you plan to attend, you must tell me by Wednesday morning. The Pig
Wake will include a no-host lunch and will begin at 11:30 a.m. this
Friday - April 3rd.
Dress is casual, but if you want to wear "Formal Pig Wake Attire" it is
black (or pink) with a pig snout. Pig snouts are available at most
costume or novelty shops.
Msg #38734 Dated 22:51:01 03-31-92 38664 <--> 38749
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: GENII REBUTTAL
Just one observation -- in the early days conventions didn't seem to be
a business; they clearly are now.
Msg #38735 Dated 22:51:54 03-31-92 38669 <--> 38753
From: T A WATERS
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Does anyone but me find it strange that in all the ads for the
Racherbaumer Wild Card book a conspicuously absent name is that of
Peter Kane?
Msg #38736 Dated 22:56:26 03-31-92 38712 <--> 38752
From: T A WATERS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I am curious about something in that message; could you define "a sense
of wonder" as you see it?
Msg #38738 Dated 23:05:59 03-31-92 -> 38750
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
It is now past 11 p.m., even on the West Coast. Do you mean to tell me
that only Anthony and Stacey are going to comment on Copperfield XIV?
Msg #38740 Dated 23:19:15 03-31-92 38682 <--> 38741
From: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN
To: JOSEPH SELPH (X)
Re: HELLO
Thanks a lot Joseph. I'm sure the autographed pix will be appreciated.
The boys name and address is:
Justin Davis
720 S. Lashley Ln.
Boulder, Co. 80303
Thanks again for the picture to Justin.
The bad bird, the one for sale, the one that ate my knife, is Marco,
and he is a yellow naped amazon parrot. I also just got
an umbrella cockatoo. Well, I guess I won't sell Marco quite yet.
Talk to you later Joseph. Raymond
Msg #38741 Dated 23:24:40 03-31-92 38684 <--> 38742
From: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: HELLO
Sorry about that Marvin.
The CORRECT zip code for Justin is 80303.
Thanks again. Raymond
Msg #38742 Dated 23:25:41 03-31-92 38697 <--> 38857
From: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN
To: ANTHONY BLAKE (X)
Re: HELLO
Thanks Anthony for the lead. I'll call the castle and see if
Ricki Dunn is scheduled to perform any time soon.
Also, I'm sure that Justin would really appreciate the note, so
here is his address.
Justin Davis
720 S. Lashley Ln.
Boulder, Co. 80303
Thanks again. Raymond
Msg #38744 Dated 0:01:12 04-01-92 38358 <--> 38745
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: FROG CALLED
I agree that he isn't very likable on stage
but the drug message did seem a subtle anti.
Msg #38745 Dated 0:02:39 04-01-92 38586 <--> 38785
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: FROG CALLED
It's like the old line of why people would wear
headbands to Dead shows (sorry Scott). The
people who couldn't afford drugs would simply
tighten their headband for the buzz. This was
the essentially what the drugs would do -
strangle yer brain.
s
Msg #38749 Dated 0:20:41 04-01-92 38664 <--> 38776
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: GENII REBUTTAL
Very interesting Pete, Will forward the letter
to Bill.
Msg #38750 Dated 0:22:16 04-01-92 38738 <--> 38755
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
Will be uploading my comments to an "ALL" message. Lemme know what you
think.
Msg #38751 Dated 0:22:35 04-01-92 -> 38760
From: EVAN KATZ
To: ALL
Re: DC XIV
My thoughts on the Copperfield show:
Because the show so closely duplicated the Los Angeles Wiltern
show which many of us saw, I couldn't help but be a little let
down. But, tonight DC reached many times the amount of people he
packed into the theaters all year, so this is barely relevant.
The stage illusions were all first rate. Copperfield's presence
was masterful without ever resorting to pandering or winking to
or at the audience. His show is utterly professional -- perhaps
the highest compliment.
That aside, I would have liked to have seen more in-the-audience
close-up. I assume the Welles piece took the place of an
additional non-stage effect (like the card-on-train-window), but
_personally_ I would gladly have given up one of the stage
pieces for something else.
Here's the one everyone will scream at. I don't think "Flying"
was as good a hook, centerpiece and climax for the show as those
in past years -- even last year's vanishing train car. Not that
it's not ingenious and diabolical, I just don't believe it
translates as well onto the television screen. The laypeople
I've talked to agree. For some reason, FLYING is too easy for
them to dismiss as "just wires." Even though I thought he did an
excellent job of "proving" it wasn't just strings, it seems too
easy for people to dismiss. And I don't quite know why. I can
personally explain the mechanics of the vanishing train car to
myself in much greater detail than the flying illusion, but I,
too, find the vanishing train car more shocking in some way.
Maybe because there are many (wrong and right) ways in which he
COULD have vanished a train car, and this leads the layperson off
onto baffled tangents, whereas there are many ways DC proved
there were no wires, but to the layperson, there's still only one
way, in the end, it could have been done.
All in all, a great, though familiar to me show. I'd have liked
to have seen the special less wedded to a theatrical stage. And
I'd love to know how that danged pie tin works!
Msg #38752 Dated 0:25:27 04-01-92 38651 <--> 38756
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Do you think real magic exists?
Msg #38753 Dated 0:29:31 04-01-92 38735 <--> 38762
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Hm. Was it Pete's recent message that recounted Garcia showing Kane's
routine to Lou Tannen with only minor changes? I was curious -- in a
case like that, do you think/know if Kane were ever financially
rewarded? Hm.
Msg #38754 Dated 0:42:48 04-01-92
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD XIV
Nice to see your work and credits on the show, Max.
Msg #38755 Dated 0:44:29 04-01-92 38738 <--> 38775
From: DAVE KNAPP
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
In Msg #38738, DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop) writes:
>It is now past 11 p.m., even on the West Coast. Do you mean to tell
>me that only Anthony and Stacey are going to comment on Copperfield
>XIV?
OK, OK. I will. It wasn't broadcast in the Bay Area; the Warriors
basketball game was on instead. Against Sacramento, even. Yawn.
Luckily, I was visiting friends in Tracy, whose CBS affiliate was
showing it, so I got it on tape. Anybody in the Bay Area who wants to
borrow it certainly can.
I thought DC did a good job of presentation; there was less of the
"isn't this AWESOME" tone and a lot more humor. Except for the
flying. I thought the Orson Welles card effect was the best of the
show, because it was so entertaining. The graffiti wall effect was
also entertaining; I also enjoyed how gutsy the "move" was and how
well he pulled it off. The closeup pie-tin with ink effect was one
of those "why didn't _I_ think of that" things. I kinda hope it
doesn't get marketed too soon -- I'd like to do a variant where the
image forms and then slowly dissolves again. The dancing in the
"woman through David" effect was, well, distracting. The "finger on
the TV screen" effect was, like last time's card effect, a little too
obvious for my taste. On the other hand, I expect to hear rave
reviews of it, so who am I to judge?
Overall, it was a great show. It will certainly enhance David's
reputation, as well as magic's in general. I'm looking forward to
others' reviews.
-- Dave
Msg #38756 Dated 0:43:43 04-01-92 38607 <--> 38759
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I've been thinking about your comment - "If I had real powers I would
feel reduced, because I was not the cause of the phenomena. I'd surely
try to find an alternative handling."
I really don't mean this to be silly or superficial, Cy. But do the
skills you already possess - talent, intellect, and manipulative
ability, along with others - make you feel reduced? Does a pro
basketball player feel he is "not the cause of the phenomena" because
he happened to have the genes that made him tall? Why would real
powers be any different?
Msg #38757 Dated 0:58:59 04-01-92 -> 38787
From: RICK KITAMURA
To: ALL
Re: COPPERFIELD
For my two cents...
I thought that this was his most magical special. Every effect was
strong and yes, the cutesy stuff was kept to a minimum. The only
criticism I have is that there were several camera tricks involved that
should have not been used in the context of a "live" magic show (i.e.,
the girl's eye to bird's eye, etc.), despite the dramatic effect. The
flying was great, but again, I'm sure it was nowhere near as great as
seeing it live. Kinda reminded me of the Superman movie, and you didn't
see wires on Christopher Reeve either. From a magician's point of view,
the ink thing was killer. The show didn't have the "worldliness" of
some of his other specials, and everything was inside and on stage. It
was probably Copperfield's most mature special, however, and it's
wonderful watching how he is growing and maturing with each special.
The vcr will be getting a workout this week, that's for sure.
Msg #38758 Dated 1:00:20 04-01-92 -> 38796
From: JOSEPH SELPH
To: ALL
Re: THE SPECIAL
Since our SYSOP is obviously looking for more comments, I hosted a
party of about 12 magicians tonight and we all agreed that it was
definately one of his better specials. Almost all of us had attended
his "live" performance at the Wiltern Theatre here in L.A., so we were
a little dissapointed at the lack of new material. The whole special
appeared to be a mix of last years and this years combined. But all in
all we were in agreement that it was very well done.
.
As far as his "flying" segment, we must say that it was MUCH BETTER in
person. It just really didn't translate to the TV sceen as weel as it
did "live". First of all, when he performed it "live", there was no
smoke and no strange cloud props cluttering the stage. It was
simply presented on a blank stage with a backdrop and a few audience
volunteers (or plants, whatever!). Not only will the lay people
dismiss it as "wires", we feel that they will also see the fog and
clouds as mere distractions to cover up the wires! And to have that
many audience volunteers was not needed either. It worked just fine at
the Wiltern Theatre with only about six people on stage.
.
Other than those comments, we were very pleased with the special and
thought the "FLYING" was a nice alternate ending to the previous
"mega-illusion" endings of the past few specials. Well done!!
Msg #38759 Dated 1:10:08 04-01-92 38654 <--> 38761
From: JERRY BURTON
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
If the majority of magicians DO believe in real magic, then why do
so many of them present their magic as 'tricks' or puzzles rather
than attempting to make it look more like the 'real' magic they
purportedly believe in. There is a saying in Magick (of which I'm
sure you are aware) 'Fake it until you make it !'.
Msg #38760 Dated 1:10:12 04-01-92 38751 <--> 38777
From: JERRY BURTON
To: ALL
Re: DC XIV
I taped the show, had seen it all before at the Wiltern. The Flying
was wonderful. I particuliarly liked the method of the hoops. When
run at full speed it seems that all the 'space' around DC has been
penetrated by the hoops. When run on slow motion (actually on my
VCR a 'frame' at a time) you can clearly see the hoops never penetrat
e the vertical just above DC's center of gravity. The timing has to
be perfect, God only knows how long it took to get this bit down.
.
I ran the entire sequence through super slo-motion and could not
detect the hook-up, it's extremely well done. Totally invisible, no
tell-tale signs at all. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Evan that
there is only one way it could have been done and hence isn't as
baffling as the train car.
.
Thank goodness, DC isn't an Evangalist or Billy Graham, Oral Roberts,
et al, would be out of business. That kind of illusion can make a
real believer out of you. Fortunately he presents it as magic and
nothing more.
Msg #38761 Dated 1:56:37 04-01-92 38752 <--> 38763
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Absolutely.
Msg #38762 Dated 1:57:07 04-01-92 38753 <--> 38766
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WILD CARD
My understanding is that Kane never got nothin'.
Msg #38763 Dated 1:58:10 04-01-92 38759 <--> 38782
From: T A WATERS
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Perhaps their belief in it is strong enough that they feel simulation
of it would be mockery; then again, since most true magick operates in
elliptical ways, it wouldn't be as dramatically effective as some of
the literary notions of magick. I think most make a clear separation
between a philosophic/theological view and artistic decisions -- those
that think about it at all.
Msg #38764 Dated 2:48:14 04-01-92 38710 <--> 38815
From: MAX MAVEN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: ADDRESS CHANGE
Ah, but I haven't moved. I'm still in apt. 1106, but my mail is now
routed to a private mailbox. And, if you know Number Alphabet, you will
understand why I got box #382.
Msg #38766 Dated 2:54:20 04-01-92 38735 <--> 38771
From: MAX MAVEN
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WILD CARD
I just received a copy of the book. Unlike the ad, there is full credit
to Kane; in fact, the book is dedicated to him.
Msg #38767 Dated 6:00:33 04-01-92 -> 38780
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Oh, sure put up the message about Wild Card the day after we received
our new shipment of the new Racherbaumer Wild Card Kit book. You could
have saved us a lot of time and money if you'd have told us all this
beforehand!
Seriously, looks like a lot of great information that will cause me
to get to the book all that much sooner. Good work.
Charlie
Msg #38771 Dated 8:00:23 04-01-92 38735 <--> 38774
From: JIM SISTI
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WILD CARD
I looked at the advertising for the book...and you're certainly
correct. Racherbaumer gives Kane his proper historical place in the
text, as does Milt Kort in his Wild Card bibliography, but you're right
about the ad copy. Hidden agendas, perhaps...?
Msg #38772 Dated 8:28:09 04-01-92 38721 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: ANTHONY BLAKE (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD REVUE
Yeslocalbasketballargh!
Msg #38773 Dated 8:28:11 04-01-92 38722 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD SPECIAL
Great msg Stace... great...
Msg #38774 Dated 8:28:14 04-01-92 38735 <--> 38778
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Haven't seen the ads... but what do you expect? Kane doesn't get
the credit due him... too bad. Great guy, great magi mind.
Msg #38775 Dated 8:28:18 04-01-92 38738 <--> 38813
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
Most people are probably rewinding their tapes (those that got to
see the dumb show) and are trying to figure out how the tricks are
done, rather than study the lighting, timing, costuming, choreography
etc.
Msg #38776 Dated 8:28:23 04-01-92 38749 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: GENII REBUTTAL
Thanks. I sent one snail mail to PO box as well.
Msg #38777 Dated 8:28:26 04-01-92 38751 <--> 38786
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
The BAD BREAK was having 90 million folks see the flying on the
Acadamy Awards show the night before with the gaff EXPLAINED....
Dumb, dumb, dumb, Hollywood folks should be more like magicians
and try to keep those things secret.
Msg #38778 Dated 8:28:32 04-01-92 38753 <--> 38779
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Kane probably got less than a postcard reply from the dealer!
Msg #38779 Dated 8:28:35 04-01-92 38766 <--> 38812
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: WILD CARD
At last.... well, that is good to hear. Kane really deserves a
major hunk of credit. Unfortunately in magic NOBODY anymore buys
stuff from the original sources... they get one, then buy bulk
gaffed cards and sell em ... Are you hip to Kane's sytem where each
card in the deck is a reminder of a different trick? He cuts the
deck looks at the card cut to and it tells him what trick to do.
Msg #38780 Dated 8:28:42 04-01-92 38767 <--> 38789
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Being a mind reader... I will say, Not found Tilt yet, but have
not really looked that hard... been too busy with a research job
on my $$ day job.... will keep scanning...
Msg #38781 Dated 8:28:46 04-01-92 38725 <--> 38784
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
So far NOBODY in glorious HOLLYWOOD, where this kind of info is
available... has posted the IMPORTANT message regarding the Copprfld
speciale... WHAT WERE THE RATINGS?
Msg #38782 Dated 9:17:50 04-01-92 38711 <--> 38788
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I spent a rainy morning at Stonehenge in 1983. While crossing the
electric fence to get a different view of the ruin I got zapped
twice. I am smarter now!!!
Msg #38784 Dated 9:18:21 04-01-92 38725 <--> 38809
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
I liked the _Trade Show Reports_ too. Connover is the only guy
on the bill I really know. maybe it's time to re-run my essay on
copy magicians in light of the Ammar clone mentioned.
Msg #38785 Dated 9:18:25 04-01-92 38744 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: FROG CALLED
I agree with you Dante, Jester's message seemed a subtle ANTI also.
Msg #38786 Dated 9:18:28 04-01-92 38751 <--> 38794
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
"Flying" didn't translate as well on the 27 inch screen as I'd
imagine that it would in the theatre. I was so broke when DC came
through Nashville, I couldn't go and didn't want to "bum" a pass
from Gary O. so I let it go on by. I was, however, very impressed
with his work with the bird. Also gratifying to see the Maven's
influence. The credits went by so fast that I didn't catch everybody
on them, but will freeze frame the credit section later this week
to see who is there.
DC's stage presence is masterful and the guy just doesn't age at
all. Who invented the _ink trick_?
Msg #38787 Dated 9:18:39 04-01-92 38757 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: RICK KITAMURA (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD
Agreed on the _ink trick_!!!!
Msg #38788 Dated 9:18:41 04-01-92 38759 <--> 38801
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Interesting comment, "Fake it until you make it!" re: Magick.
Hmmmm.
Msg #38789 Dated 9:18:45 04-01-92 38767 <--> 38905
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: WILD CARD
How is the _Wild Card Kit?
Msg #38790 Dated 9:18:47 04-01-92 -> 39768
From: TABBY CRABB
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: STACKING, STACKING, STAC
Ee;38767
I will try to remember to bring the dice cup that Pete let me use
to SLC along with the dice I got in Vegas. Using the Biro method
of teaching dice stacking, I can have you doing four in about five
minutes. Gloria got it first try. I have tried in vain to figure
it out from Sen Crandall's book for years. Pete had me doing it in
a few minutes. This is one situation where a live teacher beats
a book.
I'd be curious to learn if anyone has actually learned to stack dice
from a book.
I've been reading _Greater Magic_ again and discovering more "new"
stuff. I really like the book. The copy I have came from Charlie
Randall's book service and had belonged to Ben "Bullet" Robinson
prior. I understand he found a much nicer copy, but this is one
I can use even if I get flush enuff to get a better copy. A guy in
LV told me some "secret stuff" and I found it in Greater Magic
later during one of my reading binges. I had to laugh. Either the
guy thought it was some great secret, or the biggest secret is that
it was in GM and nobody ever actually read the book.
Eugene Burger just sent me a copy of _Strange Ceremonies_ and
despite the shocking cover art is maybe his best book ever, though
I am most partial to _Spirit Theater_.
Woulda been great to hang with ya'll at DMS, but sometimes the piper
has to be reimbursed. Looking good for SLC though since I am on the
IBM staff. Thanks for volunteering to work for me out there on the
talent show and comedy club stufffff. Remind me to get you a pass
from one of the wheels.
Msg #38791 Dated 9:19:13 04-01-92 -> 38848
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ET TU TUTU?
Ee;38767
I have a box of stuff sitting here to go out to you in the next
week or so. Sorry so slow getting with it but you don't need the
communicators til end of May, right? Have some other stuff, plus
am trying to finish up something I started for you over a year ago
and finally getting to it. Hahahahahuh.
Sorry you missed the DC special last night. I caught it on the vcr
so if you have trouble getting a copy lemme know and I'll throw it
in the box with the other stuff which is coming your way this month.
Msg #38794 Dated 11:14:57 04-01-92 38777 <--> 38795
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
Wait -- the gaff wasn't really explained, was it? I wasn't playing
close attention to the awards (I try to ignore the production numbers
as much as possible), but all I saw were some dancers lowered from wire
harnesses. What'd I miss?
Msg #38795 Dated 11:16:07 04-01-92 38786 <--> 38797
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: DC XIV
I don't know, but that trick drives me absolutely out of my mind. I'm
pretty sure the woman wasn't a stooge, though I remember the triangle
being the shape selected when I saw him at the Wiltern. But, even if
she were, he wouldn't keep the same shape from show to show, right? To
my mind, there are two parts to the equation. One: how does he
discover the selected shape? Two: how does he form the danged thing.
First the first part, it's probably easy. He either peeks, or the
clipboard's gaffed. (Hope I'm not embarrassing myself.) The tough
part is forming the shape -- when that ink gels, it's looks solid, you
know? The nearest I can think is that the ink's magnetic, and he forms
the shape below the pie tin with some kind of gaff that can create
different shapes. Or maybe he loads the gaff after he determines the
choice. I dunno. Got me in the theater, got me last night.
Msg #38796 Dated 11:20:19 04-01-92 38758 <--> 38896
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JOSEPH SELPH (X)
Re: THE SPECIAL
I thought the two rows of audience members was an essential choice to
try and "prove" it a little more for the television audience.
Msg #38797 Dated 11:21:27 04-01-92 38760 <--> 38805
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
Any ideas on the pie tinw?
Msg #38799 Dated 11:46:11 04-01-92 37969 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
Yes, Arnaud...there is NO question about that...even bastards can
have the capacity to author good books...in fact, a bit of bastard
may even enhance the effort!
Msg #38800 Dated 11:46:21 04-01-92 38007 <--> 38851
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Well...I did have to bring it up didn't I? OK...gimme a chance and
I will try to find a reference for the Stensel Aces for you. I think
I know where to look, but I haven't had a chance. Be back in the
near future.
Msg #38801 Dated 11:46:33 04-01-92 38046 <--> 38803
From: BILL WELLS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Yes Cyril...It was very good having the opportunity to see you again.
I rarely make it to local magic functions anymore and the Lavand
Lecture is the first one I have been to here for two or three years.
I was so enchanted by the bits and pieces of his material that I was
able to see in Vegas at the DMS that I had to see him really lecture
here in D.C. I can't say I was fooled that much, but I was certainly
charmed and entertained by Rene. He is a master and I, like you, do
not remember so thoroughly enjoying a magic performance in many, many
years. Rene Lavand has to be a highlight on my magical experiences
as well. I enjoyed Tina's translations in Vegas, but also found
Darwin's translations to be just as enjoyable from a totally
different viewpoint.
Indeed, all the heavies came out for this lecture. I forgot how many
important folks in magic live in the Baltimore/Washington area. I
would keep the Magic Collectors Mini Convention in mind as a future
knock out sleeper convention!!
Msg #38802 Dated 11:47:12 04-01-92 38087 <-
From: BILL WELLS
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: SIX HUNDRED?!
David -
Becki and I enjoyed meeting you as well and I am glad to now be
able to attach a face to the other David's messages.
Msg #38803 Dated 11:47:22 04-01-92 38110 <--> 38810
From: BILL WELLS
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Sounds as if the robot was a complete sensory experience for you!
Msg #38805 Dated 12:20:27 04-01-92 38786 <--> 38811
From: MAX MAVEN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: DC XIV
The ink trick was invented by Hiro Sakai.
Msg #38806 Dated 13:36:10 04-01-92 -> 38852
From: STEVE KUCERA
To: ALL
Re: DC IN BAY AREA
I called KPIX and DC will air Friday night at 8:00.
Msg #38807 Dated 13:46:55 04-01-92
From: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN
To: ALL
Re: DC
UGHH......HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED DAVID?
Does anybody know when David's show will be aired agin
in the Los Angeles area (with Century cable.) If not,
I'll soon be asking for a tape.
Take care you guys. By the way, has anyone seen Johnny Ace Palmer
at the castle this week and could you give some comments.
Msg #38808 Dated 13:52:19 04-01-92
From: GENO MUNARI
To: ALL
Re: COPPERFIELD SPECIAL
He was .....utterly, amazingly, spectacularly, mysteriously,
unsurpassably, incredibly, fantastically, magically...WONERFUL!!!!
Msg #38809 Dated 14:44:00 04-01-92 38725 <--> 38820
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Trade shows are not usually open to the public, which may be a
reason you see no reviews. You don't see reviews of private
parties. I held back on a lot of detail so that some of the good
stuff would not be stolen. Not modest - I was just an attendee.
My trade show work, if as I hope it happens, is in the future.
Msg #38810 Dated 14:44:10 04-01-92 38736 <--> 38814
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
A sense of wonder is the emotion is seeing a law of nature
apparently broken. Cards don't change color or transport etc. I
think that a sense of wonder in this sense has nothing to do with
their belief in "real" magic. I feel a sense of wonder in
watching Coppefield fly. There is beauty and artistry. I find
these same things in watching good close-up tricks. The skill and
neatness of the movements and the magical effect.
Msg #38811 Dated 14:44:21 04-01-92 38751 <--> 38822
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
We'll have to listen to some comments from the lay people to
really determine how effective the flying was. For a matter of
fact, their opinion is the only valid one in this case. We can
talk about technique of presentation and "how". Would like to see
a theatrical reviewer's opinion.
.
I saw a lot of pandering and winking. The live shows must be
impossible in this regard. Also, it is not good making fun of a
person's name or accent.
.
Magnetism!!
Msg #38812 Dated 14:44:36 04-01-92 38753 <--> 38847
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Kane's routine had been in print in Hugard's Magic Monthly. I
suspect there was no disclaimer about production rights. He
should have been reimbursed, but Frank may have felt that the
changes were enough to make it his. Based on an effect by Peter
Kane. I don't have the Hugard's but you must admit the TITLE is
Frank's or Tannen's.
Msg #38813 Dated 14:44:46 04-01-92 38755 <--> 38840
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
Missed the gutsy move on the grafitti effect. I'm sure I will see
it on a replay. Was looking at Hoffman's Modern magic, and there
on page 560 is the "Q" trick. I hope that people do not think
that the marvelous presentation by Max is stealing or in any way
unethical. This is the way the art of magic develops. Ingenious
in the use of props and the added idea of removing some of the
items and aking them to count a certain number. The pointer and
the other items falling off the glass were great too. Just
marvelous work by Max to update a chestnut.
Msg #38814 Dated 14:45:00 04-01-92 38756 <--> 38816
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I don't feel reduced by the skills you impute to me because I
have worked to develop them. Some of them may be innate - you
seem to imply. The genes of a tall basketball player are not what
make him great - its the skill developed over a period of time.
There are a lot of tall men who can't play at all, and some short
men in basketball who are quite good. And I mean short - not
relatively.
Msg #38815 Dated 14:45:11 04-01-92 38764 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: ADDRESS CHANGE
Glad we're both still in 1106. Am not familiar with Number
Alphabet. From the first number I might guess that cat is the
basis. Thus Anneman and the title of your column may be tied in.
Msg #38816 Dated 14:45:18 04-01-92 38654 <--> 38819
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
There was a study on magicians believing in magic? How big was
the selection? Why just magicians? Were they amateur or pro? Am
intrigued by this.
.
I would like to make a distinction in this discussion. Most
people, I believe, do not think that natural laws can be broken.
In matters of the mind there is a different thing. The public
feels they know little about the working of the human mind and
thus mentalism is more accepted as being actual.
Msg #38817 Dated 14:45:31 04-01-92 38660 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
TO: Tommy Wonder
VIA: MAGIC-NL
.
I think my problem is that I am hired to do tricks. I think if
they are well done, there is a sense of wonder.
.
I have ethical proplems with Geller or mentalists who actually
claim to do "real" magic. Charlatanism is not my bag.
.
It may be more difficlut to make tricks theatre, but close-up and
platform venues are quite different from stage work. I don't
think they are lesser on this account. I believe that close-up is
the highest form of our art.
Msg #38818 Dated 14:45:48 04-01-92 38661 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
.
TO: Tommy Wonder
VIA: MAGIC-NL
.
Well maybe you can explain "meaning" to me. Preferably the page
and paragraph. I'm not sure what problem of Bill's you are
referring to.
Msg #38819 Dated 14:46:00 04-01-92 38706 <--> 38821
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
When I was doing a lot of travelling, I was addicted to the
stupidest thing I've ever done. I used to read all of the time,
while driving. It is one of the lesser talents one can have -
albeit stupid.
Msg #38820 Dated 14:46:08 04-01-92 38719 <--> 38823
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Connover has the greatest platform method to borrow 3 spoons and
ben the hell out of them. The final one is actually twisted 2 or
3 times. Great effects and a great persona.
Msg #38821 Dated 14:46:15 04-01-92 38763 <--> 38826
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Very interesting T.A. True magic would not be as dramatic! Wonder
what Nelms would think of that.
Msg #38822 Dated 14:46:22 04-01-92 38777 <--> 38825
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
Again, I don't think that the Oscar show explained flying. The
mentioned wires which I don't think you could see. The big
explanation was about the blue background technique. Any person
with half a mind would know of wires. Copperfield's entire
presentation - spectators on stage, ring passes, flying inside a
box, and flying with a spectator in his arms - all are there to
demonstrate lack of wires. Therefore I don't think he was hurt at
all by any exposure.
Msg #38823 Dated 14:46:34 04-01-92 38781 <--> 38824
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Ratings are usually published much later. Monday or Tuesday they
are in USA TODAY. Other papers - the beginning of the week.
Msg #38824 Dated 14:46:40 04-01-92 38784 <--> 38887
From: CY KELLER
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Sorry to give the impression that Mark Phillips was a clone. Far
from it. The cup and ball routine is published. I'm sure Mike
Ammar would be delighted that his write-up was not in vain. I
know I'm pleased when someone uses a trick I've invented.
Msg #38825 Dated 14:46:49 04-01-92 38795 <--> 38827
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Max will probably correct me, but here goes. Before the show a
number of people are asked to draw a geometric figure on a clip
board. Whoever has drawn the triangle is picked for the show. He
did select a particular person. The magnet triangle is held below
the plate and placed against it to attract the ink with magnet
filings.
Msg #38826 Dated 14:47:00 04-01-92 38801 <--> 38885
From: CY KELLER
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
There sure are a lot of heavies in the area. Levand or somebody
of importance will bring them out. Garcia did in Baltimore.
Msg #38827 Dated 14:47:06 04-01-92 38805 <--> 38831
From: CY KELLER
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: DC XIV
Thanks for the info on ink trick. Is it in print? Am still
catching up on the new things.
Msg #38831 Dated 16:09:05 04-01-92 38795 <--> 38837
From: MARVIN STERN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
I didn't tape the show, so I can't go back and look at it again.
But it seems to me that they CUT to a tight shot of the pan and
triangle. If that's correct, the tight shot could have been a taped shot and no
t
and not live.
Msg #38833 Dated 16:17:19 04-01-92 -> 38899
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: SLEEP
MAGIC!-NL Wed 01 Apr 92 15:16
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
That's true. Many times when I heard or saw something I did not
agree with it gave more insight. The idea is to get yourself
thinking.
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #38834 Dated 16:17:26 04-01-92 -> 38876
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: SLEEP
MAGIC!-NL Wed 01 Apr 92 15:19
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
Concerning close-up. Yes it is different in many respects from
working on a stage, BUT, I really feel that theatrical elemnts
can help to improve the magic, also in close-up. Of course the
way the theatrical elemnets are used must be adapted tp a
close-up
situation. It is by no means impossible to make close-up
theatrical and still have real close-up. For instance by adding
meaning,
getting emotional hooks etc.
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #38835 Dated 16:17:34 04-01-92 -> 38873
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: WILD CARD
MAGIC!-NL Wed 01 Apr 92 15:27
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
I found the absence also quite strange. I do not know, but is
there a problem why he wants to deny Peter Kane's part in all
this?
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #38837 Dated 16:30:40 04-01-92 38795 <--> 38839
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
I wish the formation of the triangle (or other) had been a little
slower. It was a blob for a while and then rapidly went triangle.
To my mind, it would seem more logical for the ink to slowly form
into the triangle However, the methodology probably prohibits this,
though I haven't tried it.
Msg #38839 Dated 16:30:52 04-01-92 38805 <--> 38841
From: TABBY CRABB
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: DC XIV
The concept for the ink trick is indeed brilliant. It knocked my,
uh.....put a smile on my face!! Thanks for the info on the
creator.
Msg #38840 Dated 16:30:56 04-01-92 38813 <--> 38859
From: TABBY CRABB
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
Modern Magic is an oft referenced volume on this front. When I
started making magician's wands, I checked through every book here.
One of the good references was from MM. Robert-Houdin also supplies
a smidgen of info, then Sachs contridicts them both. However, I
feel that these books are available for most home libraries and
are among the places to start looking.
.
How did the effect you and Hen Fetsch _Hex Appeal_ come about
and how did Bruce Elliott get hold of it???? It is in one of my
most favorite early on magic books.
Msg #38841 Dated 16:52:10 04-01-92 38825 <--> 38842
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
I will tell you this -- I have talked to three different people who saw
three different shows, two of them in different cities, and the
triangle was selected in all cases.
Msg #38842 Dated 16:52:52 04-01-92 38831 <--> 38844
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: DC XIV
A ha! But we say it live at the Wiltern!
Msg #38844 Dated 17:59:44 04-01-92 38842 <--> 38845
From: MARVIN STERN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
No. You saw it on a screen. No big deal to switch live to tape when
they cut to the close-up. Perhaps Jerry or someone who taped it, can
let us know if it did indeed , cut to a close up to show the pan and
triangle.
Of course, I could very easily be wrong.
Too bad we can't ask Pete, but he didn't see the program. Was busy
watching basketball.
Msg #38845 Dated 18:10:44 04-01-92 38844 <--> 38850
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: DC XIV
I don't think so, Marvin. I mean, clearly DC has no problems with
certain kinds of camera tricks, and certainly no problems with the use
of stooges, but that _kind_ of camera trick would I think, cross the
line for him as a performer. In addition, I'm almost certain that
ain't the way it played.
Msg #38846 Dated 18:12:06 04-01-92 -> 38867
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: DC
Wasn't there MUCH more activity about the Copperfield special last
year?
Msg #38847 Dated 18:16:24 04-01-92 38771 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: JIM SISTI (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Maybe limited space in the Ad copy... Haven't seen either. Tsk.
Msg #38848 Dated 18:16:27 04-01-92 38791 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ET TU TUTU?
I leaved May 5 for 3.4 weeks... so need stuff before that... PCAM
is May 31, June 1-2-3 then on 4th I got to be in Baja Mexico.
Msg #38850 Dated 18:16:36 04-01-92 38795 <--> 38853
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
I think it is in print or common to the cogniscenti of mental
type crap.
Msg #38851 Dated 18:16:40 04-01-92 38800 <--> 38882
From: PETE BIRO
To: BILL WELLS (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
When I saw Stensel do the aces I had no idea. I still have no idea.
Tsk... Olga is coming!!!! Heheheheeheheh
Msg #38852 Dated 18:16:44 04-01-92 38806 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: STEVE KUCERA (X)
Re: DC IN BAY AREA
I will be in Texas, but maybe my VCR is going to work this time.
Thanx... I wuz gonna call 'em but you saved my a nickel.
Msg #38853 Dated 18:16:47 04-01-92 38837 <--> 38854
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: DC XIV
A friend of ours invented a method of having a METAL GEOMETRIC
SHAPE inside a cloth bag. Then someone would draw a picture and
when the bag was opened the METAL FORM WAS IN THE SHAPE OF THE
DRAWING. The Metal Item could be manipulated from outside the
bag to assume the shape drawn! Killer, eh?
Msg #38854 Dated 18:16:54 04-01-92 38839 <--> 38855
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: DC XIV
If it put a smile on Heraldo's face it would also have knocked his
A** Off... right....
.
News flash. Leno not taking over Carson show... Carson decided NOT
TO QUIT.... any confirmation on this??? It was a message from a
friend on my phone machine.... arghhhh....
Msg #38855 Dated 18:17:01 04-01-92 38842 <--> 38860
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Every time I have seen a magician do the INSURANCE POLICY, for
some strange reason all the cards chosen by spectators, in cities
all across our wonderful land, by some strange Quirk, were the
Eight of Clubs.
Msg #38856 Dated 18:38:34 04-01-92 -> 38868
From: STEVEN KRAMER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ACADEMY AWARDS SHOW
Pete, What is it that I missed on the Academy Awards?
Msg #38857 Dated 19:31:41 04-01-92 38653 <--> 38931
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN (X)
Re: HELLO
If you purchased the knives you are referring to from Brad Burt's Magic
they are manufactured by Buck Knives P.O. box 1267, El Cajon CA 92002
You might try calling (800)854-2557 or (619)449-1100 Ask for the Custom
Shop.
Msg #38859 Dated 20:44:23 04-01-92 38813 <--> 38869
From: MAX MAVEN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
For the record, I did not develop Copperfield's presentation on the Q
trick, nor did I have any direct input into the graffiti prediction.
Msg #38860 Dated 20:45:22 04-01-92 38827 <--> 38865
From: MAX MAVEN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
The ink trick is not in print, nor is it on the market. Hiro Sakai
developed it for his own use. He did it on Japanese television, and
when a certain individual got a tape to David the rights were
negotiated. (That individual was not me.)
Msg #38863 Dated 21:35:07 04-01-92 -> 38871
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: ALL
Re: BRAINSTORM
I am working up a childrens show. In the middle I have planned a
routine with a skunk puppet. It starts out as an introduction of my
pet rabbit. Open a cardboard pet carrier and show the kids the ears.
Looking at the kids and telling them about this 'rabbit' the kids see
a skunk with and elastic band holding rabbits ears on his head.
To date the skunk is performing the magicians insurance policy by for
smaller kids that does not go well. I would like to figure out a
mentalizm routine that can be done with one hand in a puppet and at
least on spectator. Something that would also be very visual.
Any ideas?
Msg #38865 Dated 22:54:58 04-01-92 38844 <--> 38866
From: PETE BIRO
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: DC XIV
I was not watching basketball. I do know, however that they taped
MORE THAN ONE PERFORMANCE and I would guess that the best takes,
and the best angles would make the edited, broadcast version.
.
Why not?
Msg #38866 Dated 22:55:05 04-01-92 38845 <--> 38872
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
In the live shows DC does not use a stooge for the girl he flies
with. I think he pays something like $600 a show for liability
insurance for that trick.
Msg #38867 Dated 22:55:09 04-01-92 38846 <--> 38883
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC
Sure, the magi were trying to figure out how the card on the
train window got there. It seems that this show must not have had
any tricks that fooled anyone. Since I didn't see it I can't say
that for sure.
Msg #38868 Dated 22:55:15 04-01-92 38856 <--> 38940
From: PETE BIRO
To: STEVEN KRAMER (X)
Re: ACADEMY AWARDS SHOW
What you missed on Academy Awards? I dunno, what did you see? Did
you see the Peter Pan flying stuff? The expose of the wires
sticking out of the midget's back, the expose of how Robin Williams
flew? Did you see the Award Doug Henning presented? Did you see me
sitting in the second row, just behind Whoopie Goldgerg?
Msg #38869 Dated 22:55:21 04-01-92 38859 <--> 38894
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
Gee Max, how do you spell Cooperfield (or did the header come from
someone else?)
.
Charlie Reynolds called and told me that he and Doug Henning are
going to do a special series on Prime Time on NBC -- 2 one hour
shows a year. Charles wants me to book the acts (they want one
close up peformer in each half hour, 2 per show) but NO Card Tricks
or coin tricks. I told him I would do it if I could be one of the
acts... looks good. Charlie said that Doug has some great new
stuff that has been being developed by "out of the mainstream
builders overseas" -- I have to fly to New York for meetings in
June. Taping will be done at the Salt Lake IBM on the stage during
the mornings before the regular magic convention shows are on.
We will try to sort out some kind of schedule so attendees of
the convention will be able to be in the audience. About half the
audience will have to be laymen tho... STauy tuned...
Msg #38871 Dated 22:55:50 04-01-92 38863 <--> 38907
From: PETE BIRO
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Any kind of trick where you write on a slate, say, would be good,
the skunk could hold the chalk. Or it could "select" a color of
a scarf or a cookie or any object.
Msg #38872 Dated 23:00:32 04-01-92 38845 <--> 38881
From: MARVIN STERN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
You may be right.
Msg #38873 Dated 23:15:03 04-01-92 38835 <-
From: T A WATERS
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: WILD CARD
To: Tommy Wonder
Apparently not -- the book is dedicated to him, and he is covered in
the bibliography; it would appear it is just an example of bad ad
writing...
Msg #38874 Dated 23:17:25 04-01-92 38845 <--> 38913
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
I was sitting about three feet from DC when he did the pan effect at
the Wiltern; what you saw on the TV was what was going on, no funny
business in that respect.
Msg #38875 Dated 23:19:31 04-01-92 38825 <--> 38914
From: DAVE KNAPP
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
In Msg #38825 CY KELLER writes:
>The magnet triangle is held below the plate and placed against it to
>attract the ink with magnet filings.
I suggest you try it with ink and iron filings. Hint: it won't
work. I'm particularly proud of myself for having determined how the
effect was done. I did some investigation today about getting parts
for it, and it is going to be very expensive. My guess is that were
it to be sold commercially it would be at least $300 a copy. I'm
trying to decide if it's worth it.
I called a company today to get information about pricing for one
part (yes, the expensive one), and the person to whom I spoke was
quite amused when I told her what I wanted it for. I guess I was the
first.
-- Dave
Msg #38876 Dated 23:20:07 04-01-92 38834 <--> 38974
From: T A WATERS
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
To: Tommy Wonder
An excellent example of this approach was the work of Dr. Jaks, who
had some very elaborate presentations in closeup -- kind of stuff that
might not necessarily work at the local bar, but the Aga Khan seemed to
like it pretty well...
Msg #38878 Dated 23:24:33 04-01-92 38855 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
Strange. Audience members must have a remarkable affinity to that
card. Must be magic!
Msg #38879 Dated 23:24:30 04-01-92 38875 <-
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
There will also, of course, be the expense of purchasing the rights to
perform it from its inventor.
Msg #38881 Dated 23:29:57 04-01-92 38866 <--> 38893
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
I wondered whether or not she was a stooge. His people spirit her off
stage during the playing of the flying videotape -- I wonder if they
try to get her to sign some kind of non-disclosure thing. And what if
she won't? I dunno. I know you haven't seen the special yet, so I
don't know if you realize he took two rows of the audience up on stage
to stand on the sides. Shades of "Vanishing Train Car," ahem?
Msg #38882 Dated 23:32:04 04-01-92 38851 <--> 38946
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
What is the plot of Stensel aces?
Msg #38883 Dated 23:33:50 04-01-92 38867 <--> 38902
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC
Their were fewer magician-busters, I guess. I really wish the show
had been more than basically taped live on stage. But, it's still the
network television magic event of the year.
Msg #38885 Dated 23:37:17 04-01-92 38814 <--> 38886
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Don't you think that just like excercise would develop the muscles, and
practice would develop manipulative skill, that real magical powers
would also require work and development?
Each individual is unique and some have exceptional skills that they
are not particularly aware are exceptional - good eye/hand coordination
or exceptionally fine vision, for example - might make someone better
at something. I've had people tell me "I just assumed that everyone
could do what I do."
Why would real magical powers be less of a talent or skill than
anything else?
Msg #38886 Dated 23:41:43 04-01-92 38819 <--> 38892
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I didn't say that reading on the freeway couldn't be done, just that
the reading of large books (or unfolded newspapers) was frowned upon.
That and applying mascara have always struck me as singularly dangerous
to ones-self and to those around one. Shaving, brushing one's teeth,
or practicing the trumpet while driving are, of course, common.
Msg #38887 Dated 23:48:01 04-01-92 38809 <--> 38890
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
OK, thanks, Cy. I'm told that trade shows can be a great and lucrative
market.
Msg #38890 Dated 0:02:04 04-02-92 38708 <--> 38923
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Cy,
Thanks for the excellent trade show review.
I've had the pleasure of seeing Mark and Tim at the recent
Comdex, (or was it CES?...well, one of those) in Vegas.
Tim's presentations were GREAT. Good crowd response, I don't
remember a lot of product tie in, he basically ushered us into a
presentation theater for more news about Canon, whereas most of
the crowd mysteriously VANISHED.
Mark, as always, tied in a product spiel with his effects, making
himself (in my opinion) more of spokesperson than just another
entertainer.
Forgive me if I don't recall details as it's been awhile since
CES (or was it Comdex?)
I'm anxiously awaiting Gertner's debut in the Las Vegas trade
show circuit. Maybe I just don't get to the right shows?
David (the other one)
Msg #38892 Dated 0:04:39 04-02-92 38654 <--> 38895
From: JERRY BURTON
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
If the majority of magicians DO believe in real magic, then why do
so many of them present their magic as 'tricks' or puzzles rather
than attempting to make it look more like the 'real' magic they
purportedly believe in. There is a saying in Magick (of which I'm
sure you are aware) 'Fake it until you make it !'.
Msg #38893 Dated 0:04:43 04-02-92 38751 <--> 38897
From: JERRY BURTON
To: ALL
Re: DC XIV
I taped the show, had seen it all before at the Wiltern. The Flying
was wonderful. I particuliarly liked the method of the hoops. When
run at full speed it seems that all the 'space' around DC has been
penetrated by the hoops. When run on slow motion (actually on my
VCR a 'frame' at a time) you can clearly see the hoops never penetrat
e the vertical just above DC's center of gravity. The timing has to
be perfect, God only knows how long it took to get this bit down.
.
I ran the entire sequence through super slo-motion and could not
detect the hook-up, it's extremely well done. Totally invisible, no
tell-tale signs at all. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Evan that
there is only one way it could have been done and hence isn't as
baffling as the train car.
.
Thank goodness, DC isn't an Evangalist or Billy Graham, Oral Roberts,
et al, would be out of business. That kind of illusion can make a
real believer out of you. Fortunately he presents it as magic and
nothing more.
Msg #38894 Dated 0:04:52 04-02-92 38755 <--> 38906
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
I would be interested in hearing how you think the pie-tin with ink
effect works.
Msg #38895 Dated 0:04:55 04-02-92 38763 <--> 38932
From: JERRY BURTON
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Right - those that think about it all ! I sometimes wonder how many
have any knowledge of true magick (as opposed to a gut feel for it)
and whether they know what a simulation of it would look like. I
certainly agree that a full blown magick ritual is not an entertainme
nt and is not meant for an audience, but shouldn't ones effects try
to bring out the mystery that is associated with magick ?
Msg #38896 Dated 0:04:59 04-02-92 38796 <--> 38920
From: JERRY BURTON
To: JOSEPH SELPH (X)
Re: THE SPECIAL
My former girl-friend who still works for me and HATES magic in all
forms watched the DC special grudgingly and when she came in today
the first thing she said was, "How did he do the Flying ? I didn't
see any wires or a hook-up, if it was magnets they would have to have
been huge, if it was some sort of jet motor I couldn't see the
exhaust. How did he do it ?". I just smiled and said, "Very well".
.
In spite of her dislike of magic, she had to admit it was a very
entertaining show. I liked one of her comments, "It was a cross
between Peter Pan and Superman".
Msg #38897 Dated 0:05:05 04-02-92 38797 <--> 38898
From: JERRY BURTON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
My thinking parallels yours regarding magnetic particles in the ink.
the surface tension of the fluid makes the shape stand out.
.
When asked to draw a simple geometric figure people invariably draw
a triangle, circle or square. You would need a magnetic field formed
in those basic shapes that could be brought slowly up under the tin.
At a certain point the liquid would orient itself to conform to the
underlying field.
.
Gaffed clipboard would tell which form to use.
Msg #38898 Dated 0:05:10 04-02-92 38844 <--> 38900
From: JERRY BURTON
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: DC XIV
There is no loss of continuity of the single camera that was showing
the ink trick. It just zoomed in on the pan once the ink was put in.
It was done live !
Msg #38899 Dated 0:04:41 04-02-92 38833 <--> 38979
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
TO: Tommy Wonder
VIA: MAGIC-NL
Reading something you disagree with can acomplish a couple of things.
It tends to force you to evaluate your own position and to either
provide yourself with acceptable reasons for maintaining it or it
provides an opportunity to alter it.
Msg #38900 Dated 0:09:44 04-02-92 38751 <--> 38904
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Evan,
Of all the reviews I've read tonight, yours seems the most
realistic. ( Oh Stacey, yours was Wonderful!)
I sort of missed the theatrical buildup typical of his last few
specials. Example, a little more time spent with the ink and pie
pan. It was over too quickly for me. The same about the "Q"
trick, the elimination phase was okay, but the spinner could have
turned a few more times, maybe "influenced" by David before
settling on the choice. Again, over too quickly. By the way,
given all the places he could fly as a premise, what connection
was there with the final choice? I thought we were supposed to be
involved somehow. At least last year he used the chosen dining
car. I thought perhaps the choice should reflect the setting
surrounding the flying? Or am I alone on this?
I have a friend at work whose brother works on the lighting crew
and apparently "lets him in on the secrets". (He's missed the
mark more times that not) He enjoys cornering me each year to try
to get me to reveal "how it was done". It's like he had read your
comments on wires being the only logical explanation. Another
said "Paula Abdul flys the same way on her concert tour" with no
visible support. Somewhere I heard someone explain that the movie
"Back to the Future" used a similar method for the flying
Delorean.
Beautiful job of flying, just too easily dismissed as a trick.
David (the other one)
Msg #38902 Dated 0:10:48 04-02-92 38846 <--> 38912
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC
Last year we had the Great Card On Window to discuss! But from last
night (OK, as of 13 minutes ago I'm on the wrong day - from Tuesday
night) to Wednesday morning we generated 12 pages of commentary.
This year no-one seems to know how the ink trick was done - or, at
least, those who do ain't talkin'!
I have been a little under the weather all day, so I haven't yet added
my own comments to the discussion.
Msg #38904 Dated 0:17:53 04-02-92 38760 <--> 38908
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
Jerry,
I didn't even have to resort to slo-mo to catch the hoop pass.
Neither did a couple "laymen" that watched it with me. They
caught it immediately. They were impressed, though with the
precision necessary to accomplish such a task, but it just
confirmed in their minds the use of some vertical wire harness
attached at or near his waist.
I don't feel the box helped much either in disconnecting the
method. He was just too perfect in his turns, sort of like spokes
on a wheel.
(now your bug has hit me! this is my third attempt at uploading
it failed both times at this line)
I was just looking over my last two messages, and it looks sort
of like I didn't like much about the show. Actually I enjoyed it
immensely, having re-watched three times already. I just thought
I'd comment on the (very) few little points of an otherwise
SUPERB television special.
David (the other one)
Msg #38905 Dated 0:18:11 04-02-92 38767 <-
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: WILD CARD
Pete,
Thanks for a GREAT history lesson on Wild Card. That's definitely
one I'm going to keep for my Magic! scrapbook.
David (the other one)
Msg #38906 Dated 0:18:16 04-02-92 38775 <--> 38941
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
Yeah Pete, you caught me! The tapes rewinding now. However, I'm
watching it for all the RIGHT reasons. I could say I don't care
HOW the tricks are done but I'd be lying. But this year's tricks
are definitely secondary to the other work that went into the
show.
David (the other one)
Msg #38907 Dated 0:18:24 04-02-92 38863 <--> 38943
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Stephen,
I'm not advocating copying of course, but try to catch Steve
Spill's "mind reading goose" routine. I think I saw it on the
Magic Castle special aired last year. But isn't mentalism a
little deep for most kid shows? Well, I guess with a wildly
animated skunk on your arm, anything's possible.
Anyway, have fun!
David (the other one)
Msg #38908 Dated 0:19:52 04-02-92 38897 <--> 38910
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
I think the triangle is a particularly common choice.
Msg #38909 Dated 0:29:38 04-02-92 -> 38949
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: MESSAGE PROBLEM
Thanks to EVAN KATZ, a small problem that occurred this evening got
quickly reported to me. It seems that messages # 38871 through 38880
were temporarily hidden. This was due to some work on the message base
that I was doing.
I've restored these messages, but it does mean that even those they
were intended for may have missed them. Here's how to read them:
From the Main Menu:
o Type R;38871 and press the ENTER key.
When the small menu at the end of that message appears, type 38872
and press the ENTER key. Repeat this procedure at each message
menu until you reach 38880.
Sorry for the problem, but, hopefully, if everyone takes a few moments
to check these messages out (some if which are rather interesting!)
nothing will be lost. Naturally, you can also use the message menu to
reply to those messages, etc.
Msg #38910 Dated 0:40:53 04-02-92 38897 <--> 38911
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
As I mentioned in another message, three different people at three
different performances all witnessed the triangle being formed. I
don't know what to make of this as, even if a stooge or some other type
of pre-selection involved, wouldn't DC just rotate the shape formed by
changing the gaff? Circle or square can't be any harder to form than
a triangle... Maybe the triangle looks the best.
Msg #38911 Dated 0:43:09 04-02-92 38900 <--> 38916
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: DC XIV
Easily dismissed as a trick, AND the more people discuss it, the more
I realize flying has sort of been done to death -- by Paula Abduhl, on
the Oscars, in numerous behind-the-scenes movie special effects
exposes... Yes, DC does it better, his "proofs" are excellent. But
people have seen it. They haven't seen a train car vanish, really, but
they have seem flying... May I take it from reading your message that
friend at work commented that he thought wires were the only
explanation?
Msg #38912 Dated 0:45:17 04-02-92 38902 <--> 38915
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DC
I think we basically know how the ink trick was done. On the other
hand, I thought I basically knew how the card on window was done. Hope
you feel better. Jeanne and I and pretty much everyone we know has
this bug.
Msg #38913 Dated 0:47:26 04-02-92 38874 <--> 38971
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DC XIV
I concur. The ink did what the ink looked like it did. Also, was
there someone with a binoculars in the audience at your show? I'm
trying to remember -- I think it may be a "bit."
Msg #38915 Dated 1:24:02 04-02-92 38912 <--> 38939
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC
I suspect that the guesses on the ink trick are no more correct than
were most of the guesses on the Card on Window.
I think that most of the bug around here is gone, except for some
portion of it that seems to hang around the bronchial tubes. Today
seemed to just be a particularly crummy sinus attack. But that could
be an illusion generated by the bug.
Msg #38916 Dated 1:30:31 04-02-92 38911 <--> 38937
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Transfering Flying from the live stage to the small screen must have
been an incredible challenge. I feel it succeeded as well as it
possible could and that it was beautiful to watch.
Having seen it twice on stage, it is impossible for me to separate
myself from the live performance but seeing it again on television,
done as beautifully as David did it, affected me very profoundly.
I think it carried a message too - that dreams should not die.
It is a powerful, powerful piece. The real "proof" on television was
not the hoops and the box - it was the live audience, some two thousand
or more of them, in a standing ovation, each experiencing that same
feeling that I shared with the live audiences I saw it with.
I saw it again today, along with two friends - one who had seen it last
night and one who hadn't seen it previously. Once again, it generated
that same feeling of awe mixed with the belief that dreams can come true.
Msg #38920 Dated 5:42:04 04-02-92 38796 <--> 38922
From: JOSEPH SELPH
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: THE SPECIAL
Point well taken! The audience members do help to "prove" it more.
But the fog and clouds were still a bit much!
Msg #38922 Dated 5:53:33 04-02-92 38896 <--> 38961
From: JOSEPH SELPH
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: THE SPECIAL
Yes, he does it VERY well!! And it's even more impressive when your
sitting in the first few rows and he's practically flying right over
you!! Glad she liked it!
Msg #38923 Dated 6:00:16 04-02-92 38824 <--> 38976
From: MICHAEL AMMAR
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Hello Cy! Yes, you are 100% correct in assuming that I am very
flattered when someone goes to the trouble to read what I've written!
Also, I had the pleasure of working across from Mark at a COMDEX show
a few years ago, and while he may use my sequence of moves, he
definitely puts himself into the delivery. I feel he did a great job!
At that same show, I had the pleasure of seeing Tim Conover perform for
the first time in years. Wow - I had always admired his work before,
but I was extremely impressed with all of his new stuff!
Msg #38924 Dated 6:28:11 04-02-92 38398 <--> 38926
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
David,
Well, I'm still alive and the juice is still in the spare
bathroom.
Ain't science wonderful?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #38926 Dated 6:52:46 04-02-92 38408 <--> 38927
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
Pete,
Did you juggle the cork balls while they were on fire?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #38927 Dated 6:52:53 04-02-92 38412 <--> 38956
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
Jerry,
As you've probably figured out by now, yeah, I'll be at the
lecture.
Did the cigarette papers in the package burn well? Is it worth
messing with, or were they too screwed up?
I'll see you friday!
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #38928 Dated 6:53:01 04-02-92 38426 <--> 38972
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
T.A.,
I have also used (with a great deal of success I might add)
"Insight straight" and "Predictionary."
Again, good stuff. Thanks.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #38929 Dated 6:53:09 04-02-92 38589 <--> 38988
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: R TURNER
Burt,
Good enough. Are you going to the pig wake?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #38931 Dated 6:53:25 04-02-92 38653 <--> 39099
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN (X)
Re: HELLO
Raymond,
Is Jim Ravel the name of the gentleman you saw perform at the
Castle? He is known as "Mr. Pickpocket" and he wrote "Theatrical
Pickpocketing."
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #38932 Dated 6:53:33 04-02-92 38654 <--> 38962
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
T.A.,
That may be so, but Randi is the only magician that I know of who
sent shills in to fool psychic believers.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #38933 Dated 6:53:41 04-02-92 38715 <--> 38951
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC FLYING
Pete,
The Curtin taping service to the rescue again. Would you like a
copy of the Copperfield special?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #38937 Dated 8:16:01 04-02-92 38844 <--> 38938
From: PETE BIRO
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: DC XIV
I was not watching basketball. I do know, however that they taped
MORE THAN ONE PERFORMANCE and I would guess that the best takes,
and the best angles would make the edited, broadcast version.
.
Why not?
Msg #38938 Dated 8:16:08 04-02-92 38845 <--> 38945
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
In the live shows DC does not use a stooge for the girl he flies
with. I think he pays something like $600 a show for liability
insurance for that trick.
Msg #38939 Dated 8:16:13 04-02-92 38846 <--> 38947
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC
Sure, the magi were trying to figure out how the card on the
train window got there. It seems that this show must not have had
any tricks that fooled anyone. Since I didn't see it I can't say
that for sure.
Msg #38940 Dated 8:16:19 04-02-92 38856 <--> 39254
From: PETE BIRO
To: STEVEN KRAMER (X)
Re: ACADEMY AWARDS SHOW
What you missed on Academy Awards? I dunno, what did you see? Did
you see the Peter Pan flying stuff? The expose of the wires
sticking out of the midget's back, the expose of how Robin Williams
flew? Did you see the Award Doug Henning presented? Did you see me
sitting in the second row, just behind Whoopie Goldgerg?
Msg #38941 Dated 8:16:26 04-02-92 38859 <--> 38948
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
Gee Max, how do you spell Cooperfield (or did the header come from
someone else?)
.
Charlie Reynolds called and told me that he and Doug Henning are
going to do a special series on Prime Time on NBC -- 2 one hour
shows a year. Charles wants me to book the acts (they want one
close up peformer in each half hour, 2 per show) but NO Card Tricks
or coin tricks. I told him I would do it if I could be one of the
acts... looks good. Charlie said that Doug has some great new
stuff that has been being developed by "out of the mainstream
builders overseas" -- I have to fly to New York for meetings in
June. Taping will be done at the Salt Lake IBM on the stage during
the mornings before the regular magic convention shows are on.
We will try to sort out some kind of schedule so attendees of
the convention will be able to be in the audience. About half the
audience will have to be laymen tho... STauy tuned...
Msg #38943 Dated 8:16:55 04-02-92 38863 <--> 39004
From: PETE BIRO
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Any kind of trick where you write on a slate, say, would be good,
the skunk could hold the chalk. Or it could "select" a color of
a scarf or a cookie or any object.
Msg #38944 Dated 8:16:59 04-02-92 38875 <--> 38953
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
Whoa.... hey it ain't your trick to make, copy, steal, dupe or even
perform!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unless you buy the rights
from the copyright holder. OK?
Msg #38945 Dated 8:17:04 04-02-92 38881 <--> 38958
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Probably off stage to sign an insurance waiver. When you sign you
are usually covered by insurance and cannot sue.
Msg #38946 Dated 8:17:08 04-02-92 38882 <--> 40098
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: SHOOTING STAR
Four ace trick. All same. His modus was amazingly different.
Msg #38947 Dated 8:17:11 04-02-92 38883 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC
Well, they all saw him during the year do the stuff live....
Msg #38948 Dated 8:17:14 04-02-92 38906 <--> 38973
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
But, he's got the job!
Msg #38949 Dated 8:17:17 04-02-92 38909 <--> 38952
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MESSAGE PROBLEM
Was my message about Doug Henning's new specials lost?
Msg #38951 Dated 8:17:22 04-02-92 38933 <--> 39276
From: PETE BIRO
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: DC FLYING
I thinkk my neighbors have made a tape for me... willletcha know.
Thanks... got to run.. late fo4 work... argh..
Msg #38952 Dated 9:41:02 04-02-92 38949 <--> 38957
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MESSAGE PROBLEM
Well, I saw your message re: Henning on TV and all the
related about SLC, etc and actually have been in a sorta
state of shock after reading it here on MAGIC!
.
Hope it's true about the shows as it would be fun to see
the resurgance of competition between the big shows, plus it
would spinoff into a lot of work for all types of professional
magicians for a while - six to 12 months - probably with Cop
coming out the "winner" in the end continuing to do his annual
special.
.
In 1972 or thereabouts I was involved with TM(tm) in Houston and
Henning came down to "do" a weekend with us. He brought off the
shelf stuff with him, like "gozinta" boxes, 20th century silks,
and some other stufff with sponges. The magic was in his calm
demeanor and his "attitude" - presentation, if you will. He was
selling the tm thing using magic. I got more
into the magic than the meditation. This was before the tv
specials and stuff. He seemed to be working for the tm folks
as he was doing a lot of traveling on their behalf hitting the
different centers in major cities. Dunno. His presentation of
"Things That Go Bump In The Night" killed on tv. Those early
specials around 1975 - 76 - magical - eh, what? Perhaps it's
just another rabbit in a hat.
.
Took a giant step with BP over the weekend, keep yer fingers
crossed; actually crossed fingers will not do it. This calls
for "knock on wood", preferably some tabwood(tm)(c)(p) or the
underside of a veneer door made into a desk - or any wooden
desk. Do it NOW!!!!!!!
Msg #38954 Dated 10:44:49 04-02-92 38944 <--> 38960
From: DAVE KNAPP
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
In Msg #38944 PETE BIRO writes:
>Whoa.... hey it ain't your trick to make, copy, steal, dupe or even
>perform!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unless you buy the rights from
>the copyright holder. OK?
Of course. I would not do the trick without that.
Let me ask you a question, though, since I now find myself in a
weird position: if I were to use the principle to do another trick
that is only distantly related, would that be considered "bad form?"
It would certainly be legal; the trick involves nothing that can be
patented by a magician, and you can't copyright ideas, only
expressions. I'm sufficiently new to magic that I'm not aware of any
unwritten code of ethics about that.
My comment about doing a variant wherein the figure "disappears"
afterward was hasty; in order to be legal, the entire handling would
have to be significantly different. Thanks for the reminder.
-- Dave
Msg #38956 Dated 10:53:58 04-02-92 38924 <--> 39032
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
Just be careful, Kevin. We need you and Kerry more than we need the
juice!
Msg #38957 Dated 10:59:09 04-02-92 38949 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MESSAGE PROBLEM
No, not only was your Doug Henning message not lost, but you sent it
twice (along with a few others). I guess people have been too busy
getting their audition tapes together to reply.
Msg #38958 Dated 11:10:46 04-02-92 38916 <--> 38959
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DC XIV
Hm.
Msg #38959 Dated 11:11:42 04-02-92 38945 <--> 38977
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
Yes, but don't you think another conversation has to take place?
Msg #38961 Dated 11:16:45 04-02-92 38920 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JOSEPH SELPH (X)
Re: THE SPECIAL
Yeah, the fog and clouds were a little too much for me, too. But I
fond myself in an insignificantly small minority concerning DC that
doesn't appreciate what I call the "Vegas" and "disco" elements of the
act. It's so personal it's hardly relevant, and, to pick at these
elements when DC is the only man doing this nationally at this level,
would be silly. Nit-picking.
Msg #38962 Dated 11:18:41 04-02-92 38932 <--> 38975
From: EVAN KATZ
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
More details on that, please?
Msg #38966 Dated 13:20:00 04-02-92 -> 38985
From: GARY PLANTS
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: STENCEL ACES
Hey Cy,
You can find Stencel Aces by Bob STENCEL in Richard's Almanac, Volume
3, Summer 1985 issue. This was one of the quarterly issues and was one
of the last ones published. I understand that the magazines are no
longer available from Richard Kaufman so you may need to look around to
find a copy. Hope this helps.
Good Luck
Gary Plants
Msg #38967 Dated 14:00:05 04-02-92 38599 <--> 38968
From: MIKE KING
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Maybe not. I am returning message after show. Have heard several lay
folk say they didn't know how hw did it. So it must have gone over
well. See ya Friday. MIKE
Msg #38968 Dated 14:01:21 04-02-92 38614 <--> 38969
From: MIKE KING
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I hope so. I have always believed that the end result is entertaining
not "fooling". If you can do both, well then, all the better.
Msg #38969 Dated 14:02:16 04-02-92 38639 <--> 38986
From: MIKE KING
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Oh Jerry, I knew your snout would be special!!!
Msg #38970 Dated 14:06:52 04-02-92 -> 38987
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
MAGIC!-NL Thu 02 Apr 92 18:24
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
Are you really considering spending about $300 to make the ink
trick of David Copperfield? For what? To prove to your audience
you have nothing better to do than to be a mere copy-cat?
Good grief!
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #38971 Dated 15:20:58 04-02-92 38913 <--> 38989
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
The binocular gag is a standard; I think it was less than wise to do it
on the TV show.
Msg #38972 Dated 15:21:43 04-02-92 38928 <-
From: T A WATERS
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: TODD ROBBINS
You're very welcome; I always like to hear about the stuff being used.
Msg #38973 Dated 16:12:48 04-02-92 38869 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COOPPERFIELD XIV
Pete - how are you picking the close-up performers? Will you
know before June? Sounds like it will be great
Msg #38974 Dated 16:12:55 04-02-92 38876 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: SLEEP
Was very fond of the Jaks approach and used it for some time. The
number of places that it could used is limited. Spent time with
Jaks and saw most of the material. There was high interesxt
because of the props, but he made no claims to superhuman powers.
Even the signature duplication was based on the fact that he
could look at someone and know how they would write. I think he
claimed that some people called what he did was mind reading, but
he would leave it up to them to decide. Wasn't the act called
Curiosities of the Mind? I have one of his brochures somewhers
and he has quotes from the Aga and many others of note.
Msg #38975 Dated 16:13:09 04-02-92 38885 <--> 38994
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
How the hell would I know? I don't belive in real magical powers
- remember? I do agree that some people are better at some things
than others. I know a very fine card man who can not do the
Charlier Pass because of a small hand.
Msg #38976 Dated 16:13:17 04-02-92 38890 <--> 38983
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Tim, Mark and Paul ALL tied their presentation to the product. Of
the three, I thought Paul did the best job. Tim mentioned the
product constantly and told what it did. ALL at the end asked the
people to talk to a salesperson. When you saw Tim, he may hve
been working with a new product and was not as familiar as he
would have been later.
Msg #38977 Dated 16:13:28 04-02-92 38893 <--> 38978
From: CY KELLER
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
There is more than one way. The only person I talked to was
mumbling something about magnetism.
.
I'm also glad that Copperfield isn't an evangelist. This goes to
the heart of the Nelms conversation we are having. You don't have
to claim powers to be theatrical. The best theater, I thought,
was the opening with the book and the faclon in a dusty midieval
room. He also made much of have a warehouse where he created the
effects.
Msg #38978 Dated 16:13:41 04-02-92 38897 <--> 38980
From: CY KELLER
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
No - you need only the one shape, and one magnet. He didn't
retrieve the clipboard. I've explained before that before the
show he uses a clip board with several people until someone draws
the triangle. The he seeks out that person. Notice that he has
set up the apparent free choice of a spectator in the grafitti
effect. He also used the "we haven't met before" with some of the
helpers. As I remember this one, he went up the aisle and picked
her out.
Msg #38979 Dated 16:13:54 04-02-92 38899 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: SLEEP
.
TO: Tommy Wonder
VIA: MAGIC-NL
.
Very correct Tommy. Everyone should read things they disagree
with. Maskelyne makes the point that one should follow his
points unless one can find a strong reason to vary them.
Msg #38980 Dated 16:14:05 04-02-92 38900 <--> 38981
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: DC XIV
The theater is not in the build-up. It's in the presentation its
self. Disagree with the pie pan. It never looked like anything
would happen it was so slow. The spinner could have spun longer,
not because of influence, but coincidence. Moon? "Fly me to the
Moon". Great song. There is no such thing as just a trick when
there is beauty and theater and drama.
Msg #38981 Dated 16:14:16 04-02-92 38904 <--> 38982
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: DC XIV
Everyone seems to be taken with the hoops. What about the box and
the spectators on the stage.
Msg #38982 Dated 16:14:22 04-02-92 38910 <--> 38990
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Why rotate the form when the pre-selection could insure the
triangle? Occam's razor.
Msg #38983 Dated 16:14:29 04-02-92 38923 <-
From: CY KELLER
To: MICHAEL AMMAR (X)
Re: TRADE SHOW
Glad you agree with the pleasure found in someone using your
routine. I remember you were around in Tim's early days in D.C.
Tim has really grown.
.
I still have difficulty with those who talk about clones and
using other people's material. Look at all the actors doing
Hamlet or the new version of Henry V, even after Olivier did such
a great job. Look at all the versions of classic popular music
which people add their own interpretation. I feel that a
published routine is the same thing as a play or a piece of
music. A classic is a classic.
Msg #38984 Dated 16:14:44 04-02-92 38954 <--> 38992
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
You talk about patents - which deal with the legal aspect. What
those on the Bulletin Board is talking about is ethics. Another
matter entirely. Ethics deals with your conscience and the
disapproval of your peers. If something is published, I think the
use of the effect or adaptation of the principle would be fair.
To put it out again to make money is a different thing. NO!
Cervon and Weber seem to feel you cannot use the material. Ken
Brooke also restricted some items as to venues. Billy McComb had
a hassle on this point.
Msg #38985 Dated 16:14:57 04-02-92 38966 <--> 39024
From: CY KELLER
To: GARY PLANTS (X)
Re: STENCEL ACES
Thanks for the information on the Stensel Aces. I suspect that
this was a reprint, and that there is an earlier appearance. HOpe
someone can come up with the earlier version.
Msg #38986 Dated 16:15:04 04-02-92 38968 <--> 39241
From: CY KELLER
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Entertainment is no excuse for doing sloppy magic. This is why
Sheets, Thompsoni and others are so good. I mention the two as
being the best magicians I know - with Sheets being slightly
ahead.
Msg #38987 Dated 17:17:24 04-02-92 38970 <--> 39026
From: DAVE KNAPP
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: DC XIV
To: Tommy Wonder
>Are you really considering spending about $300 to make the ink trick
>of David Copperfield? For what? To prove to your audience you have
>nothing better to do than to be a mere copy-cat? Good grief!
I don't believe we've met before, Tommy. Do you treat everyone
this way? I hope not. If you'll go back and re-read my message, I
wrote that the parts for the trick DC did would cost at least $300. I
don't remember saying I planned to do the same thing. I have, and
had, no such intention.
I feel as if I've stumbled into a minefield here. If I tell how
the trick was done, I'll be flamed for letting out a great effect.
If I want to do something using the basic principle, I'm told it's
being a "copy-cat." This is strange. Have you never taken a move
invented by someone else, improved on it, and made a new effect?
That doesn't strike me as being a copycat. Perhaps the best thing
would be not to discuss it at all. That's what I'll do until I more
fully understand the ethical nuances here. Thanks for your patience.
-- Dave
Msg #38988 Dated 17:33:10 04-02-92 38929 <--> 39137
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: R TURNER
Sorry, but no I will not be able to get out to the pig wake.
Msg #38989 Dated 17:45:34 04-02-92 38971 <--> 39000
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DC XIV
Why? Because anyone who'd seen the show live opened the show with the
knowledge that so-called spontaneous moments were in fact, not?
Msg #38990 Dated 17:50:53 04-02-92 38978 <--> 38991
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
Cy:
Are you certain that DC performs this pre-selection process, or is it
conjecture? Also, I assume you believe that the grafitti spectators
were, in fact, freely chosen, right?
Msg #38991 Dated 17:52:12 04-02-92 38981 <--> 38993
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
Spectators on the stage impressed me about as much as the circle of
spectators surrounded the train car last year.
Msg #38992 Dated 17:53:15 04-02-92 38984 <--> 39023
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
Before we all jump down Mr. Knapp's throat, let's think about this. If
you witnessed a magician using the double lift, and it had never been
published before, would you be violating ethics to then go and devise
a double lift for your own purposes? What about a hand to hand
retension vanish? Would you be prohibited from coming up with your own
just because no one had published the concept before? Yes, I know that
the ink effect is "different," but where, in fact is theine? An
interesting point for discussion. And I do believe people have
mistaken Dave Knapp's enthusiasm for having figured out a great puzzle
for something worse.
Msg #38993 Dated 17:56:00 04-02-92 38982 <--> 39080
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
Rotating it would ensure that friends who saw different shows, or the
show then the TV special, would be instantly suspicious!
Msg #38994 Dated 17:57:49 04-02-92 38885 <--> 38995
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
REAL magical powers wouldn't be less of a talent or skill than anything
else. But do you believe they'd be MORE of one? I do. Much more.
Msg #38995 Dated 17:56:41 04-02-92 38975 <--> 38996
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Well, just like it would be silly for someone with particularly good
physical skills to attempt to handicap themselves so that they wouldn't
take advantage of their abilities, it would be silly for someone with
magical powers to not use them. That's why, fun as it was to watch,
the premise of Bewitched always bothered me.
Msg #38996 Dated 18:08:17 04-02-92 38994 <--> 39083
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Yes, I do believe they would be more.
Msg #38997 Dated 18:05:23 04-02-92 -> 39002
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: INK
I think the ethical considerations here are not terribly difficult to
ascertain. Hiro Sakai's ink trick introduces a new effect and a new
method; as such, neither is up for grabs. When David Copperfield saw a
tape of Sakai's performance, he negotiated performance rights for his
own use. If anyone else wishes to perform this effect they must also
contact Sakai. Then, presuming Sakai is willing to sell the rights (and
also presuming DC hasn't locked up a window of exclusivity), the trick
would be theirs to use. Otherwise, it's hands off.
And Evan, in answer to your question on the hypothetical situation, if
the Double Lift did not exist and you saw someone using it for the
first time, _yes_ you would be ethically obligated to solicit
permission to work with the sleight.
When something has been published and/or marketed the purchaser gets
the right to use it (unless there is an explicit restriction attached
to that purchase, in which case the marketer has a responsibility to
make such restriction(s) clear in advance of purchase). When it comes
to seeing someone perform something that has not been published, the
rights remain those of the performer. The fact that an observer has
figured out the method has absolutely no bearing on the situation. (I
have "figured out" how to draw Mickey Mouse, but that doesn't give me
the right to start selling Mickey Mouse material... In the real world
-- as opposed to that of magicians -- such infringement is frowned
upon, and generally receives swift and stern treatment in the courts.)
[Note: Messages # 38998 and # 38999 were personal and do not appear here.]
===END OF MAGIC-98===
©
1997, 2009 QuestX Webs with All Rights Reserved.
MAGIC! and this approved web site
are protected under U.S. copyright law. MAGIC! ® and The Global
Magicians Network ® are registered Service Marks and are the
property of the registree. Licensed to questx Webs 1997. All
Rights Reserved. Copyright violation includes the display of this page in a "frame" as part of another page. Content of this site cannot be used without
prior permission.