MAGIC! - 99
The following was compiled from the magician's message section of
MAGIC!(tm). MAGIC! is an electronic communications system for
magicians. It may be accessed from any personal computer with a
modem by dialing US 818-896-7450. New registrants must leave a
comment with their name, address, phone number and a brief resume of
their magic background to be considered for membership. The
material herein should be treated as confidentially as other magic
information. Copyright 1992 by MAGIC!, All rights reserved.
Small errors may occur while messages are created, or during the
process of transfering them to files. MAGIC! assumes no
responsibility or liability for these errors.
Msg #39000 Dated 18:26:15 04-02-92 38989 <--> 39012
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Correct; all those people who had seen the show and thought this was an
example of DC's off-the-cuff humor were now disabused of that notion --
and, of course, he can't use it any more. It played very well in the
live show, but perhaps he's got tired of it.
Msg #39002 Dated 20:09:51 04-02-92 38997 <--> 39013
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: INK
Thank you, Max. That was an excellent clarification.
We really don't know, though, that Dave (Knapp) has actually hit upon
the same method that Sakai created. And he has already said that he
has a different effect in mind. I presume that if his method is really
not the same, and if he uses it in a different effect, then he is
completely free of any responsibility to either Sakai or Copperfield.
Then again, since the Sakai method is not in print, it is rather
difficult to know if his method is or is not the same.
A serious question - what would be appropriate in such a situation?
Msg #39004 Dated 20:47:15 04-02-92 38907 <--> 39009
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Mentalism is OK for kids, if it is quick, and visual. Choosing a color
is a good idea, I will need to search my library; though I do not have
much on mentalism.
Any other ideas? I need all the help I can get, I have been thinking
on this for about a year now and have only come up with the Insurance
Policy which only the older kids begin to understand.
Msg #39009 Dated 21:41:27 04-02-92 39004 <--> 39112
From: SCOTT ALCALAY
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Mental for the kids??? Yes, it is OK depending on the age of the child.
Having been a children's performer for many years in Los Angeles and
for the past three in the bay area, I have found it difficult to do any
thinking trick for ages 1-5 years. For 6 and up, you might want to try
getting a copy of Kid Stuff Vol. five. There is an excellent article by
David Hoy on kid shows. And for a real good prop trick you might want
to try a JoAnn Duck (?!?!?!?) Yes, they are great for reveling words
that are forced. There is an excellent routine for the 7 and older set.
s
Msg #39011 Dated 21:44:22 04-02-92 -> 39015
From: SCOTT ALCALAY
To: ALL
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
So the DC special was pre-empted for the Golden State Warriers Here in
the Bay Area. Now it will be on TeeWee Friday night and after reading
all the reviews, I am going to watch it with a very critical eye. I
have seen DC in Las Vegas and he does a james-dandy of a good show, but
now I am going to be sceptical about all the things he is going to do.
(ESPECIALLY this ink trick) ASIDE: Have you seen William Wizards
Chemical trick called BLINK? Water to ink in a Blink! NEAT, Huh? Back
to DC...I am looking forward to see how he has taken the Pendragons
trick and DC'ed it. What I dont like about the DC specials is there is
not enough time in the credits for everybodys name to flash by. I
couldnt care less who was on the TV crew but it would be nice to see a
screen of all the creative input. Maybe an effect by effect credit....
Ink trick by:
Other effects listed origionally listed in the folloewing books:
Do you think the upper eshalon of DC's think tank could do that?
Ethics, man, ethics......
Msg #39012 Dated 22:04:46 04-02-92 39000 <--> 39050
From: EVAN KATZ
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DC XIV
Considering the approach of the entire special -- that is, to basically
tape the stage show, he probably didn't include the binocular bit
because he was tired of it and wanted to bid it goodbye; but rather
because it was part of this year's show!
Msg #39013 Dated 22:07:00 04-02-92 38997 <--> 39014
From: EVAN KATZ
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: INK
I agree, of course, making my living out of intellectual property.
What I'm curious about is where the line is -- you don't feel you draw
it at the double lift, and I'll agree. As a writer, for instance, it
would clearly be impossible to protect the "boy meets girl" idea
because it is that -- an idea, not a story. What is the equivalent in
the magic world? Is pulling a rabbit out of hat an idea, or something
more evolved. Is pulling anything out of a hat down at the idea
level... I think it would be interesting to draw a parallel between the
writer's creative rights over his material, and the magicians.
Naturally, in the case of the ink and pie tin effect, the case is
crystal clear.
Msg #39014 Dated 22:10:24 04-02-92 39002 <--> 39052
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
Jeez, that's a tough one -- let's say Dave is wrong -- but his method
(for a DIFFERENT effect) is one that he _thinks_ was the Sakai method.
Does this make him just as culpable as if he were right, and correctly
guessed (and was using) the Sakai method? ... Curious to think what
Max thinks on this one, too.
Msg #39015 Dated 22:12:58 04-02-92 39011 <--> 39020
From: EVAN KATZ
To: SCOTT ALCALAY (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
Two thoughts on the credit question:
1) Television end credits are always notoriously fast. Period.
2) I think DC has a good argument to refuse to credit specific effects
to specific creators -- it really would throw a wrench in the image
he has worked so hard to create -- that he is the maestro. He
doesn't have enough of an argument to not credit people at all, as
I understand a popular magician did in the past, but I think it's
unnecessary to be specific.
Msg #39020 Dated 22:20:02 04-02-92 39015 <--> 39029
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: SCOTT ALCALAY (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
DC is not doing a lecture, he is doing a show. I have yet to see a
mage give credits in performance except under unusual circumstances
where the creator is being particularly honored or some-such. If he
were delivering a lecture, complete credits would be appropriate.
To the best of my knowledge, DC's closing credits are quite diligent
and quite complete. In this regard I think he is above reproof.
Msg #39023 Dated 22:44:09 04-02-92 38954 <--> 39041
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
I always consider Jim Stienmeyer's analogy. Can you do it on the
same show as the other trick and have it percieved as a different
effect?
Msg #39024 Dated 22:44:14 04-02-92 38966 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: GARY PLANTS (X)
Re: STENCEL ACES
Thanks Gary. FYI - Joe Stevens has all the remaining cards (Stripper)
and Slick Ace decks made by our friend in Vegas to sell.
Msg #39026 Dated 22:44:23 04-02-92 38987 <--> 39079
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
I think if you re read Tommy there were Question Marks at the end
of his statements. If you don't know Tommy, and his work, you
might want to research him a bit... He is one of the most original
folks on the planet and wouldn't think of doing something anyone
else does in the same way ... get his books.
Msg #39027 Dated 22:44:29 04-02-92 -> 39038
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD
Ee;38952
El Tab, and El Others, El All, etc.
.
Finally saw the Copperfield TV Special. It is the best Illusion
show I have seen. It was as good to me as seeing his live show
in Las Vegas. And the Flying was wonderful. I actually got a chill
at the end when Icarus flew onto his arm and awaaaay they flew...
.
I don't give a hoot at all how any of the things work. I am still
baffled and glad to be baffled by Stienmeyer's effect where one
person climbs through another. I had the opportunity to study
this prop at the shop and refused to even walk over to it and
nose around. I don't want to know.
.
It is like the first time I saw the Zig Zag performed. It was done
by its creator, Robert Harbin and fooled the pants off me... and
when I found out the secret was upset and lost something.
.
The timing of the show, the sequences, all were more than one
could hope for. The amazing thing is that DC does this night
after night all over the country.
.
What a graet example of the art. What a lesson in presentation
to be had by him.
.
David, thanks Dude! Killer!
Msg #39029 Dated 22:52:00 04-02-92 39011 <--> 39030
From: PETE BIRO
To: SCOTT ALCALAY (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
The trick is not (to my knowledge) "the Pendragon" trick. It is
a Jim Stienmeyer effect popularized by the Pendragons. Maybe
Max can elaborate on who was first or what is needed here?
Msg #39030 Dated 22:52:04 04-02-92 39020 <--> 39054
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
Channing Pollock, at the London Palladium finished his act, then
on the bows, stopped and had the spotlight hit someone in the
audience. He thanked the person for his inspiration and credited
him for much of the Misdirection of his dove work.. the person?
Slydini.
Msg #39031 Dated 22:52:13 04-02-92
From: PETE BIRO
To: ALL
Re: GONE
Outa here to Dallas Texas until Sunday night. Adios... and Happy April
fools from Doug HenningG
Msg #39032 Dated 23:03:57 04-02-92 38408 <--> 39134
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
Pete,
Did you juggle the cork balls while they were on fire?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39034 Dated 23:05:06 04-02-92 -> 39143
From: EVAN KATZ
To: ALL
Re: DC DV RE-VIEW
Just thought people might be interested that today's (4/2/92) review of
the Copperfield special was a rave. Don't want to quote too much of
the review, but "mind-boggling," "extraordinary panache" and "warm and
genuine" were thrown about. Review did seem to indicate that some of
the more "artificial" (her word) settings were geared to a younger
audience. I'd love to know the demographic ratings data on the
specials, but that is not usually published.
When I find out the overall ratings, I'll post them, assuming no one
has already done so.
Msg #39036 Dated 23:10:58 04-02-92 39030 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
That's class!
Msg #39037 Dated 23:08:57 04-02-92 39014 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
I donno, Evan. I try to leave all the tough stuff to Max and T. A., et
al. My job is to wash the glasses, clean the ashtrays and listen.
Speaking of which, if I don't clean a couple of the system's ashtrays
tonight there will be no room for new messages!
Msg #39038 Dated 23:12:12 04-02-92 39027 <--> 39144
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD
Pete--
I'm curious. You've seen probably all the past DC specials, I have
not. Have others in the past been like this one -- that is, basically
tapings of the live show?
Msg #39039 Dated 23:13:43 04-02-92 39037 <--> 39145
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
I would have thought you would have genuinely dug the weird ethical
ramifications of that one. Hm.
Msg #39040 Dated 23:14:06 04-02-92 39030 <--> 39146
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
I think that comes under the "Honor" category I mentioned. A nice
thing to do. And there are a few performers who credit specific
effects, etc. during performance. Generally, though, it is my
understanding that it isn't customary.
Msg #39041 Dated 23:19:21 04-02-92 38992 <--> 39081
From: DAVE KNAPP
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
In Msg #38992 Evan Katz writes:
>And I do believe people have mistaken Dave Knapp's enthusiasm for
>having figured out a great puzzle for something worse.
Thanks, Evan. I appreciate the support. I am pretty new to
magic, and even newer to Organized Magic. I had no idea what I was
getting into with my offhand comments. Sigh. Folks, I am really
_not_ trying to steal anything, or to make any money illegally, or
even unethically. We can continue the discussion of ethics, if you
like, but I'm not going to say more about this particular effect.
-- Dave
Msg #39045 Dated 23:25:46 04-02-92 39034 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC DV RE-VIEW
I take it that was the Variety review, Evan? Yes, will look forward to
seeing the ratings!
Msg #39047 Dated 23:28:53 04-02-92 39039 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
Oh, yeah, I DO dig the ramifications of that situation! I just don't
feel qualified to comment on it! Not yet, anyway! Maybe I'll feel
better after I've put the glasses in the dishwasher . . .
Msg #39048 Dated 23:38:21 04-02-92 -> 39148
From: CHUCK RUBEY
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: PCAM REGISTRATION
Scott, write a note to Kevin Cardona at P.O. Box 1857, Freedom, CA
95019. He'll send you some registration forms for the convention. I d
did not get any extras. Also call me when you get achance. I might be
able to come out to the Concord Hilton on the 8th.
Regards, Chuck
Msg #39050 Dated 0:09:41 04-03-92 39012 <--> 39084
From: T A WATERS
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
But...he could have edited it out...
Msg #39052 Dated 0:13:08 04-03-92 39002 <--> 39053
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
I think the method for the Sakai trick is, in fact, not all that
difficult to figure out. However, the point is less significant than
that of the effect itself. By all means, if someone is inspired by one
effect to develop a different one then it's fair game -- but I submit
that the difference would have to be substantial. Having the ink move
to form a different type of image would not constitute a true change of
effect. Having the image revert to an ink blob is not really different,
either.
Msg #39053 Dated 0:16:37 04-03-92 39013 <--> 39062
From: MAX MAVEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
Read my message again -- I _do_ draw the line at the Double Lift in the
hypothetical situation of that sleight being previously unknown and
unpublished.
Pulling a rabbit out of a hat is indeed an idea that at one time could
and should have been considered intellectual property. Now, after so
many years, it is public domain -- but that was not always the case.
There are gray areas, without question. But the ratio of ethical
situations which fall into gray categories as opposed to those where
the ethics are clear-cut is huge; the vast majority of situations are
not gray at all, and quite easily assessed.
Msg #39054 Dated 0:19:46 04-03-92 39029 <--> 39086
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
The effect in question is properly titled "Permeability." It was
devised by Jim Steinmeyer, and first rights arranged for the
Pendragons, who worked out their approach with the initial prop which
was built by John Gaughan. The Pendragons dubbed the trick "Interlude,"
by which title it is probably better known at this point.
Msg #39055 Dated 0:57:14 04-03-92
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: SYSTEM
I'm afraid we had a small system failure tonite. I think I know what
the cause was, and we are working on it.
Meanwhile, once again, there may be some messages that went unread due
to the problem. I would suggest that everyone who has not read
messages # 39030 thru 39049 go back over those messages.
Msg #39062 Dated 1:10:43 04-03-92 39052 <--> 39085
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: INK
I agree that having the ink move to form a different type of image
would not constitute a true change of effect. That would be somewhat
like changing the force card in a card effect and pronouncing it "new."
Why do you say that the point regarding the method is less significant
than that of the effect itself?
Msg #39078 Dated 3:50:08 04-03-92 -> 39151
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: MESSAGES
I think I have the messages back under control (now, at 3:52 a.m. on
the morning of the Pig Wake). But I did want to point something out.
For a variety of reasons, there happen to be a large number of
private messages at the moment, so please do not think that something
has gone wrong. Messages # 39056 through # 39061 and messages # 39063
through # 39077 are all private. Therefore, unless one of those
happens to be addressed to you, you will see, with the exception of
message # 39062, a large gap.
Msg #39079 Dated 5:36:27 04-03-92 38987 <--> 39107
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
In your letter, after citing the $300.00 cost, you state
"I'm trying to decide if it's worth it." One would have to infer
that you were planning on doing the effect. If you take a move
and create a new effect, you are not being a copy-cat. However, in
the case in point you are copying the effect - a different
matter. Since I think the effect and method have not been
published, you would be stealing the work. Copperfield, if he did
not receive permission, is also copying without permission. I
wonder if Tommy thinks that Copperfield is a copy-cat for doing
this trick and the Pendragon effect - both of which have been
done on TV before.
Msg #39080 Dated 5:36:43 04-03-92 38990 <--> 39082
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
I'm not sure that the pre-selection is done. It would be the best
way. The way the selection was done with the brick thrown in the
audience, leads me to the conclusion that they were freely
chosen.
Msg #39081 Dated 5:36:51 04-03-92 38992 <--> 39132
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
If the double lift or retention of vision principles had not been
published before, ethically, you shuld not create a handling.
Your use of the word "prohibited" is strange. No one is stopping
you of doing the same thing - only your conscience and the dis-
approval of others.
.
Figuring out a puzzle, and spending the time in research to see
the cost are two different things. The second implies a desire to
use the trick.
Msg #39082 Dated 5:37:04 04-03-92 38993 <--> 39136
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Not necessarily.
Msg #39083 Dated 5:37:10 04-03-92 38995 <--> 39094
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
In the nature of sport and games, to even the playing field and
make a more interesting game, handicaps are often given. That's
what makes horse races. The game of GO has a built-in method of
handicaps to even the battle.
Msg #39084 Dated 5:37:18 04-03-92 39000 <--> 39154
From: CY KELLER
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DC XIV
I immediately thought it was a set-up. I thought the humor was of
a strange sort.
Msg #39085 Dated 5:37:24 04-03-92 39002 <--> 39087
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
If Knapp uses the effect, it doesn't matter if the method is the
same. The _effect_ is mental control of a blob of ink. I'd be
curious to know what the new effect would be.
Msg #39086 Dated 5:37:32 04-03-92 39011 <--> 39090
From: CY KELLER
To: SCOTT ALCALAY (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
Blink? This is an effect called THINK INK by Kattner and Myer. It
is still on the market, I think. There's too much rhyming in
this message. You are watching a rip off.
Msg #39087 Dated 5:37:39 04-03-92 39013 <--> 39088
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
The equivalent to "boy meets girl" would be a vanish an
appearance, a transposition etc. A particular effect such as a
rabbit and hat would belong to the inventor until the inventor
chooses to release it.
Msg #39088 Dated 5:37:48 04-03-92 39014 <--> 39089
From: CY KELLER
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
Not a tough one. He should research by asking Sakai or someone
who knows the method, if his is the same. Otherwise leave it
alone. Still interested in what a different effect would be using
this methodology.
Msg #39089 Dated 5:44:16 04-03-92 39053 <--> 39091
From: CY KELLER
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: INK
Agree with this message and the previous. The gray area seems
small.
Msg #39090 Dated 5:44:23 04-03-92 39054 <--> 39098
From: CY KELLER
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
I assume that if the Gaughan apparatus included the approach that
Copperfield needed to clear the purchase with the Pendragons as
well as Steinmeyer.
Msg #39091 Dated 5:44:30 04-03-92 39062 <--> 39095
From: CY KELLER
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
In the ink trick the effect is the most significant think. The
method is of secondary importance.
Msg #39092 Dated 5:57:26 04-03-92
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: WILD CARD
The book is very good, especially if you have an interest in Wild
Card (well, maybe only if). I've only browsed it but the couple of
items I've read seem pretty good. Cards come with it, so I hope to
work up at least one or two of the ideas. Perhaps some of the best
information is the extra stuff in the book: history, tips, etc.
Oh, did you get the photos yet. You got to get out to David Price's
place! Although I did hear his wife was having some problems.
Charlie
Msg #39093 Dated 6:00:23 04-03-92 -> 39158
From: CHARLIE RANDALL
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: FOSE
Cy, I got to go to FOSE last spring. Mark, Tim, and Paul were there.
I thought all 3 were great. Mark had an excellent extertaining show.
Paul did some extra stuff for me, including some classic force work
that was too good. Tim had some stuff that just blew me away. The
birthday thing was unbelievable. I went back 3 times just to make sure
he wasn't using a stooge.
Charlie
Msg #39094 Dated 7:20:59 04-03-92 39083 <--> 39097
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Innteresting, Cy. But I don't accept it as relevant. There was a
science fiction story in which people were deliberately "handicapped"
so that the human race could all be "equal." Didn't sound very
desirable, at either the individual or the societal level, to me.
Msg #39095 Dated 7:26:47 04-03-92 39085 <--> 39096
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: INK
Suppose he made the "blob" run uphill?
Msg #39096 Dated 7:29:11 04-03-92 39091 <--> 39104
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: INK
I don't see why the method would be of secondary importance,
particularly in the Ink Trick. Would copying the method be more
appropriate than copying the effect?
Msg #39097 Dated 7:59:04 04-03-92 39083 <--> 39135
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
By the way, do you have any idea what it is like to wake up following
a one hour "nap" after working all night to save the system (rather
brilliantly, I might add) and thus keep MAGIC! in the World, and find
yourself being chased around the global electronic plumbing system by
BOTH Cy Keller and Max Maven? You want to talk about "even playing
fields?" You have to each spot me 40 I.Q. points and at least four
hours of dreamtime.
P.S. - The first person who says anything like "40 points would hardly
suffice" is out of here! Anyone else who does it will be labeled a
copycat.
Msg #39098 Dated 8:46:28 04-03-92 39090 <--> 39149
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
Jonathan Pendragon is listed in the "Special Thanks" at the end of the
show.
Msg #39099 Dated 10:10:19 04-03-92 38857 <--> 39100
From: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: HELLO
Thanks Burt, I'll check into Buck Knives.
Msg #39100 Dated 10:11:10 04-03-92 38931 <-
From: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: HELLO
I'm not sure if it was Jim Ravel or not but thanks, I'll look for him.
Msg #39104 Dated 11:26:40 04-03-92 39087 <--> 39106
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: INK
Hm. Interesting.
Msg #39106 Dated 11:27:39 04-03-92 39088 <--> 39111
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: INK
"He should research by asking Sakai...?" Two problems with that. One,
if I were Sakai, I would not give up the method. Two, if Dave indeed
had a unique and different method, he would be exposing his.
Msg #39107 Dated 11:31:34 04-03-92 39079 <--> 39140
From: EVAN KATZ
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
You could very easily read D. Knapps's "I'm trying to decide if it's
worth it," to mean, if it were worth it to see if it would indeed work
the way it worked on DC's special... I do believe, again, that it was
a statement of elation more than anything else.
Msg #39109 Dated 11:51:48 04-03-92 -> 39115
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
MAGIC!-NL Fri 03 Apr 92 01:00
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
Ignore my last message to you. I understand that indeed you do
not want to be a copy cat. Good!
However, do you realise what problems you are creating for
yourself? You say you want to change the effect so that it is only
distantly related. Now, I do not think that it will be easy to
change the effect that it is only distantly related, so distantly
that your audience will not realise that it is a version of
Copperfields effect. The audience might not exactly remember the
effect as done by David, and anything involving ink and a pan
where the ink moves, might be regarded as the same.
If you can really change this trick so much that it is no longer
associated with Copperfield, than you must be an utter genius. (I
truly hope you are!).
But if you are an utter genius, with the capacity to change that
trick so much, than it should be no problem for you to create a
totally original effect yourself! Why not do that. Much better!
If however, you are not an absolute genius, why not open some old
book, take an effect nobody is doing, put the effort into that
effect instead of Copperfields effect, because then it is not
necessary to make a version which is distantly related. This is a
whole lot easier to do and the final result will be much more
rewarding, for both you AND your audience. If you take the
Copperfield effect as a vehicle to make something special for
yourself, you are taking the difficult road. What you intend to do
takes a genius! Why not take something from a book nobody is doing
and thereby take the easier road? With the same amount of energy
you will have a lot more result.
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #39111 Dated 12:31:24 04-03-92 39002 <--> 39113
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
Interesting in the discussions of Sakai's "Ink Trick"....reminiscent
of last year's "Card on Train Window" effect. It looks like the
Copperfield Special has again touched the magicians gathering around
the MAGIC! lamp.
Msg #39112 Dated 12:31:29 04-03-92 39004 <--> 39179
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Try Tim Wenk's "Peanut Butter and Jelly Trick" for the kids. Call
or write him at Tim Wenk, Box 500, Stockbridge, MA 01262 or call
him @413-243-4573. Tell him that tabman said call. He demonstrated
it (the PBJ trick) here in January. The kids (pardon the pun) ate
it up! Wenk's a nice guy and would be glad to talk to you about
magic if you're serious about doing it well and being a good person.
Msg #39113 Dated 12:31:35 04-03-92 39013 <--> 39116
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
The effect is the thing, not the method, unless the method is part
of the effect. If an idea originates from someone and you (not YOU,
but hypothetical) take that idea consciously (no matter how deep
you bury the guilt) and use it as YOUR OWN (again, hypothetical),
you destroy your soul. All else is insignificant when faced with
that truth.
Msg #39115 Dated 14:57:58 04-03-92 39109 <--> 39162
From: DAVE KNAPP
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: DC XIV
To: Tommy Wonder
>If you can really change this trick so much that it is no longer
>associated with Copperfield, than you must be an utter genius. (I
>truly hope you are!).
Well, I _know_ I'm not. Anyway, thanks much for the advice. I
appreciate it.
-- Dave
Msg #39116 Dated 15:00:44 04-03-92 39106 <--> 39117
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
Yeah, Evan, I noticed that little problem with exposure of one method
or another. This one is gonna take a U.N. observer! Nah, they ain't
that good neither.
Msg #39117 Dated 15:02:02 04-03-92 39111 <--> 39150
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: INK
Yep, the Ink Trick sure has sparked some interest! What I like is that
it is bringing several threads together.
Msg #39120 Dated 15:20:44 04-03-92 -> 39164
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: TEL SMIT
URGENT! IF ANYONE KNOWS HOW TO GET IN TOUCH WITH TEL SMIT PLEASE
LET ME KNOW VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY!
Msg #39122 Dated 15:24:47 04-03-92 -> 39124
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE
The Great Pig Wake - an afternoon of madness and mayhem - has come and
gone! MAGIC! members in attendance included MARVIN STERN, KEVIN
CURTIN, MIKE KING, BURTON THE BIZARRE, and MANNY WELTMAN. LESLIE
MANNING got caught in a meeting and arrived just as we were all
removing our Pig Snouts.
But the real surprise were our surprise guests - PAUL RUBEN (Wizardy
Productions) and CARL WILLIAMS (Custom Magic). Carl arrived complete
with a couple of his wonderful devices, including an incredibly
beautiful recreation of Okito's Expanding Ball. This is the sort of
stuff that only the Doc Albo's of the world get! Even the case it came
in was a treasure! And the precision and intricacy of the device was
beyond beautiful! Thank you Carl!
After lunch, we put on our Pig Snouts and wandered around the Castle a
bit. We gathered out at the site of the former Super Pig - BULLETIN:
There is now a _new_ rather tall birdbath there! No telling what
happened to the old one - and posed for farewell video which will be
sent to you (Arnaud) for the enjoyment of the Dutch members (perhaps we
will show it at next year's Annual MAGIC! Meeting).
Then, with sad farewells, the group adjourned the Great Super Pig Wake.
Goodbye, Dear Pig -- even if your "remains" are on the roof of the
Castle's storage garage!
Msg #39124 Dated 16:00:09 04-03-92 39122 <--> 39129
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE
Oh! I forgot to mention the CENTERPIECE on the table! A genuine
HUBCAP surmounted by a CAN OF BLACK SPRAY PAINT and a BAG OF CRISPY
FRIED PORK SKINS. Alas, the Pork Skins will not be in the package
going to the Netherlands - we were concerned about getting them through
customs, so Mike King ate them.
Msg #39128 Dated 17:14:12 04-03-92 -> 39188
From: JEFFREY COWAN
To: ALL
Re: MAGIC WANTED
I've got a buddy in Australia who needs help finding a prop,
specifically a white/white Merrill (color changing) knife. If anyone
has one and wants to sell it, send me a message and I'll get back to
you. Thanks.
Msg #39129 Dated 17:48:14 04-03-92 39124 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN (X)
Re: PIG WAKE
Egads! I forgot the SUPER STAR of the Pig Wake - ALDO COLOMBINI! I
haven't looked at the video yet, but if it came out, you will get to
see him wearing a Pig Snout!
Msg #39132 Dated 18:55:56 04-03-92 38875 <--> 39147
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
Dave,
You bring up an interesting point. I've had many ideas that
involved getting strange and unusual items. I'm invariably asked
what I'm going to use it for. If I just say magic, it is never
enough. But I don't want to tip to non-magicians. How far
should one go before one says, "I can't tell you any more."
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39134 Dated 18:56:12 04-03-92 38956 <--> 39142
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
David,
Karri and I will be careful.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39135 Dated 18:56:19 04-03-92 38962 <--> 39141
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Evan,
I'm sorry, I seem to have lost the reference for which you want
more information. Please elucidate.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39136 Dated 18:56:27 04-03-92 38980 <--> 39153
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
Gee Cy, he picked the clouds at my house.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39137 Dated 18:56:34 04-03-92 38988 <--> 39168
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: R TURNER
Burt,
We missed you. Had fun. A shame you couldn't be there.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39140 Dated 18:56:59 04-03-92 39079 <--> 39152
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
Cy,
I can't speak for Dave, but I have bought parts for, and re-
produced other magicians illusions. I have never shown these to
anyone, but I'm sometimes curious about the boundries of a trick.
What it will and won't do. This is another way of creating
something new. I wouldn't think of performing someone else's
unpublished material, but enjoy the mental exercise involved in
recreating it.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39141 Dated 18:57:08 04-03-92 39097 <--> 39173
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
David,
Wouldn't you qualify as the first person to say something
like...?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39142 Dated 19:15:08 04-03-92 39032 <--> 39172
From: PETE BIRO
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
Never went far with the routine... didn't like messin' with fire.
Msg #39143 Dated 19:15:11 04-03-92 39034 <--> 39222
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC DV RE-VIEW
You mentioned a review, but not where or what publication????
Msg #39144 Dated 19:15:14 04-03-92 39038 <--> 39305
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD
Not really the same... More "contrived" studio type in the earlier
shows. I panned him a couple of times for BORING shows... and was
sweating out if he would be mad at me, but no... we are on very
good terms.
.
He has grown tremendously as a performer. He is now himself. For a
long time he would be "other people" in some segments. Especially
the talk stuff... but the constant working live has made him a
Great Theatrical Artist.... PERFECT FOR TODAY'S AUDINECES... What
amazes me is his "young audience appeal" but he is sponsored by
Clorox! Must be a real magic fan at the Bleach Factory or their
agency... the demogaphics don't make sense to me.
Msg #39145 Dated 19:15:26 04-03-92 39039 <--> 39548
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
My feelings on the ink trick. Its OK, but not much of an entertain-
ment piece. A bit of mystical woo woo, very good on the TV screen,
and maybe fine in a small setting, like a SEANCE?
.
I can't fathom why someone would want to "take" the effect without
either buying the trick or the rights to do so, however. tommy
Wonder has a good message... "look for some things in the old
books that are not being done and revive them"... There are so
many effects.... ARgh...
.
Magicians must STOP DOING WHAT THEY SEE DONE BY OTHERS.. LIKE
SHEEP...
.
Think
.
find
.
invent
,
revive...
.
think about it....
Msg #39146 Dated 19:15:48 04-03-92 39040 <--> 39174
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
An interesting credit was "Barclay Shaw" (what do you think he was
thanked for, David? Anyone else have an idea (Except Maven, he
knows)!
Msg #39147 Dated 19:15:52 04-03-92 39041 <--> 39304
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
Dave, ask Lichtman to give you the message numbers for the huge
volume on Ethics and download them... makes good reading.
.
since you admit to being new... let me just give you one important
bit of advice.... (ok, 2)
.
1: Magicians generally stop thinking too soon about any effect or
method, or presentation. It takes a LOOOOOOONG TIME....
.
2: Try real hard to avoid jumping on the bandwagon of doing what
you just see someone do.... Read the classic books. Join a group
and find out who in the group really knows what is going on. Tjis
could be very difficult. But take your time. Nothing good comes
right away.
.
Do not ever feel your questions are stupid. Always, always ask
what you want here online. You have access to several of the TOP
MINDS in magic right here. Honest... and this doesn't even count
me!!!!
.
Believe me, if you want the REAL HONEST ANSWERS... THEY WILL COME
HERE FASTER THAN ANYWHERE.
.
NO WHERE... WILL YOU FIND ACCESS TO MAVEN, WATERS AND WONDER.
.
IF THEY DON'T KNOW... IT DOESN'T MATTER. OR EXIST.
Msg #39148 Dated 19:16:17 04-03-92 39048 <--> 39269
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHUCK RUBEY (X)
Re: PCAM REGISTRATION
pcam is shaping up to be a very strong convention. I have just
lined up some great talent.... soon as actual contracts are
SIGNED will post the list.
.
Even I am coming out of semi retirement! Argh....
Msg #39149 Dated 19:16:24 04-03-92 39054 <--> 39156
From: PETE BIRO
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
I would assume then, that Pendragon's "rights" have expired?
Msg #39150 Dated 19:16:26 04-03-92 39062 <--> 39155
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
I think Max is saying the EFFECT here is Everything... There could
be various methods... but so what?
.
Some methods might be a faked tin. A faked Chair the tin rests on.
A faked Table the tin rests on. A fake hidden in your pantsleg.
A fake within the ink. It is moot... there could be more than one
way to do it.
.
And please don't say "I am doing it on a plain flat window glass
and think it is different. the Puddle moving and forming a shape
is the effect.
.
Again, I quote Stienmeyer. "Can your version be done on the same
show and be percieved as a different trick?"
Msg #39151 Dated 19:16:41 04-03-92 39078 <--> 39182
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: MESSAGES
A thought on the airplane today. The Wild Card book made me think
of this.
.
I am going to do this for some layment. I am going to do Peter Kane's
"Watch the Ace" and immediately after do "Wild Card" and ask the
spectators if they think the tricks are different.
Msg #39152 Dated 19:16:48 04-03-92 39079 <--> 39221
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
I think that David is paying for his material. And I think that it
is OK to do things seen before. AFter all, many artists sing the
same tunes... and pay the rights every time... the arrangements are
different for sure.
.
Take "Permeation" or "Interlude" as it is best known... the lead in
choreography of Copperfield (by Jennifer Spina) (Is she related to
tannen Tony?) was outstanding and set the trick up beautifully.
The amazing camera work from side, rear, etc. of the FLYING WAS
INCREDIBLE TOO... Funny, no one that reviewed it mentioned that
after the show, outside, David FLEW AWAY.... and then there was
a "Continental Airlines Commercial" ahahahahahaha....
Msg #39153 Dated 19:17:01 04-03-92 39080 <--> 39298
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
Are you talking about the Wall and Spray can trick? If so, there
is no need to force, etc... If you knew the work you would know this.
Msg #39154 Dated 19:17:04 04-03-92 39084 <--> 39552
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
What was set up? What was strange? The binocular gag? I liked it.
So what if it was set up. so is all comedy show material. Hey, it
is a tv show... they can all be actors if you want them to be.
Msg #39155 Dated 19:17:09 04-03-92 39085 <--> 39159
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: INK
You pour the ink into the pan. Wobble it around. The INK VANISHES.
And the pan assumes the shape. Or the Shape is eaten out of the
pan and the ink goes thru, leaves a stain on your white pants.
.
here is a new idea. I want to show a piece of paper....draw a
picture of a glass of beer on it. Roll up paper and pour out some
beer. Then unroll and find a FULL SIX PACK.
Msg #39156 Dated 19:17:17 04-03-92 39086 <--> 39157
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
I don't know if the guy is claiming the trick as his... just doing it
but if he is selling it.... yep THINK INK IS KATTNER'S LOOOOOON AGO.
Msg #39157 Dated 19:17:21 04-03-92 39090 <--> 39170
From: PETE BIRO
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
I am sure Gaughan will not sell anything without the rights being
cleard. He almost lunches daily with Stienmeyer.
Msg #39158 Dated 19:17:24 04-03-92 39093 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHARLIE RANDALL (X)
Re: FOSE
Did you download my message on the Wild Card history?
Msg #39159 Dated 19:17:27 04-03-92 39095 <--> 39160
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
Uphils and do what? If the image changes, uphill schmuphill.... is
the same... Even if for kid show you use MILK... is same trick.
.
I think the whole basic idea needs be left alone.
.
I only know of five of us doing the card on the train window.
Msg #39160 Dated 19:17:34 04-03-92 39096 <--> 39161
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
OK FROG.... you nick the method. TELL ME WHAT EFFECT YOU CAN DO
WITH THE METHOD THAT IS NOT THE SAME????
Msg #39161 Dated 19:17:38 04-03-92 39113 <--> 39163
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: INK
Well said, El Tab.... am in Texas.... argh.... flew all day. Tried
it without plane but fell off my porch.
Msg #39162 Dated 19:17:42 04-03-92 39115 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
Dave... just keep thinking and keep asking questions. It will be
good.
Msg #39163 Dated 19:17:46 04-03-92 39117 <--> 39176
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
The more I think about it the more I wonder what the fuss is. It is
(Ink Trick) not one I would think is that strong. If one likes
predicting a geometric shape and wants more latitude.... ie: having
infinite number of choices, no stooge, no ink to spill, no props
as big as needed to drag around... SPEND THE TIME LEARNING TO USE
A THUMB WRITER.
.
The Finn Jon set up is fabulous. His lecture time on the subject
was wonderful at the DMS.... And I would guess he left a supply
of them (the ball point pen and the wide marker versions) with Joe
Stevens.
Msg #39164 Dated 19:17:57 04-03-92 39120 <--> 39183
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TEL SMIT
Tel Smit, being Dutch.... try MAGIC-NL.
Msg #39168 Dated 19:44:52 04-03-92 39137 <-
From: BURT CARPENTER
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: R TURNER
Sorry I couldn't make it. I look forward to reading your review.
Msg #39170 Dated 19:54:08 04-03-92 39149 <-
From: MAX MAVEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
Expired? No, the Pendragons still have the rights for performing the
trick. If you're referring to rights of exclusivity, to my knowledge
they did not have such rights; rather, they had first dibs.
Msg #39172 Dated 20:16:40 04-03-92 39134 <--> 39303
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
We shoulda thought of this yesterday! Since you got that big tub of
juice, we should soaked a couple of pigs in it and had "flash pigs" for
the outside ceremony.
Msg #39173 Dated 20:18:23 04-03-92 39141 <--> 39218
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Nope! I ain't smart enough today to have said it. So I couldn't have
been the first person to do so.
Msg #39174 Dated 20:18:59 04-03-92 39146 <--> 39175
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
A Puppet or a Puppeteer?
Msg #39175 Dated 20:22:04 04-03-92 39146 <--> 39248
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
Yeah, I noticed the Barclay Shaw "Thanks" and wondered about that.
Msg #39176 Dated 20:25:33 04-03-92 39150 <--> 39177
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: INK
In his early post Max seemed to state that both the effect and the
method were proprietary. That the method was new, unique and
different. His later post seemed to suggest that the method wasn't
quite so important. Hence my confusion.
Msg #39177 Dated 20:27:09 04-03-92 39159 <--> 39178
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: INK
And only two of us (and I don't recall you being one of 'em) who do
Card on Airplane Window. Me - I spent enough time doing ink blots at
the asylum - don't wanna do no ink-shape tricks.
Msg #39178 Dated 20:28:33 04-03-92 39160 <--> 39181
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: INK
I don't know what else I could do with the method! Besides, I already
told you - maybe make a liquid roll UP an incline at my command.
Msg #39179 Dated 20:28:58 04-03-92 39009 <--> 39180
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: SCOTT ALCALAY (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
I have noticed that for kids under about 6 adult are Magical. We can
do anything. We are adults. To them we are Deity!
Thanks Scott for you suggestion.
Msg #39180 Dated 20:30:33 04-03-92 39112 <--> 39187
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Tabby, thanks. I do have PB&J. It is truly great and is currently the
closing effect of my show. However, it does not help me with the
problem with the skunk.
Msg #39181 Dated 20:32:21 04-03-92 39163 <--> 39189
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: INK
I don't need no Swami. With my nails I could use a pan and a roller.
Maybe even one of those spray gun things.
Msg #39182 Dated 20:33:39 04-03-92 39151 <--> 39223
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MESSAGES
THAT (Watch the Ace followed by Wild Card) would be interesting to see!
Msg #39183 Dated 20:34:25 04-03-92 39164 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TEL SMIT
Yup, I figure that this way I got it covered on MAGIC-NL too, not to
mention finding the dude in case he is hiding in Hawaii or New Zealand
or Alaska.
Msg #39186 Dated 20:46:02 04-03-92 -> 39209
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: ALL
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Reading through the messages I sense a confusion about copyrights and
patents.
An 'IDEA' is not copyrighted or patented. The 'IMPLEMENTATION' of that
idea is what can be copyrighted or patented. Being a engineer and
software designer I have followed a few cases and their results.
One case I read lately was about Lotus spreadsheets. The judge said
that the idea of a spreadsheet is not copyrighted. It is Lotus's
presentation and implementation of that idea that is copyrighted. The
company that Lotus sued and written a spread sheet that looked and
acted EXACTLY like Lotus 1-2-3. The judge said they could not do that.
However, had they changed the menu items, added or removed a feature
, or simply used a modifed layout, Lotus would not have won.
The point is if you see someone performing an effect you like. If you,
without any of that performers records or input, recreate AND modifiy
the presentation they you may perform that effect as your giving credit
to the performer from whom you received the inspiration.
That is the copyright and patent system (in the US) ,in a nutshell, as
I understand it.
Msg #39187 Dated 21:36:57 04-03-92 39179 <--> 39190
From: SCOTT ALCALAY
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Not Always so! Some of these kids see more than 1 kid magic show while
in grammer school. They have assemblys, birthday parties and company
picnics that more often than not have a kid show magician. They do the
assortment of STANDARD kid tricks. You know the classics of the kid
trade, Coloring Book, needle/balloon, Change bag, cut rope.
When a kid sees the prop for the first time, they will undoubtley yell
"I know that trick!" now more often than not, they have seen a magician
expose the trick or, if you will, have been over exposed to the trick.
What can you do diffrent in a kid show? Do the stuff that has been
well teseted in the 50's and 60's and mpdernized for the 90's. Soft
soap is a great kids trick. Just use a new soap box. I made a Tommy
Windsor Popcorn box out of a ceral box. I use that and the little
buggers never yell "I seen it!" Kids are smart, they see too much TV so
their sence of wonder must really be shaken hard.
We are not a deity to a kid, some think they see right through what
we are presenting. But if the material is presented in a way that will
appeal to a grade schooler, you must bend the adult rules to fit the
imagination of the appropriate age range. Above all else, make the
presentation fun and entertaining and remember your pacing!
Keep those little buggers happy!!!
Msg #39188 Dated 21:50:34 04-03-92 39128 <-
From: SCOTT ALCALAY
To: JEFFREY COWAN (X)
Re: MAGIC WANTED
You can order one through steve dawson, the magic touch in MILPITAS,
Ca. Area Code 408 263-9404 tell him I sent you.
Msg #39189 Dated 22:02:11 04-03-92 39113 <--> 39206
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: INK
I _definitely_ agree that the effect is protected in this manner
(basically, by eternal damnation). I wonder, however, if methods don't
have some of this ethical protection as well. Watcha think?
Msg #39190 Dated 22:01:25 04-03-92 39187 <--> 39231
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: SCOTT ALCALAY (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
It also works well to have a 3-year old magician. They relate to his
performances! He also does well with adults. Next week I think I'll
loan him my copy of Corinda.
Msg #39206 Dated 23:20:55 04-03-92 39159 <--> 39207
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: INK
At this point I suppose I should point out that in one of my books,
published several years ago, I mentioned the notion of letting water
drip onto a disc of glass, where it formed the shape of a star. This
will work with any of those glasses that have the design etched in
acid, the ones you breathe on to bring out the image.
Msg #39207 Dated 0:02:52 04-04-92 39206 <--> 39212
From: MAX MAVEN
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: INK
Yes, and several years ago I published an animated glop of slime. But
I think you'll agree that despite their similarities, neither of our
effects is quite the same as Sakai's.
Msg #39209 Dated 0:04:59 04-04-92 39186 <--> 39233
From: MAX MAVEN
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
As I have observed before, the discussion of ethics in magic has
virtually nothing to do with the ins and outs of copyright law.
Msg #39212 Dated 0:11:51 04-04-92 39176 <--> 39213
From: MAX MAVEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
I did not suggest that method is unimportant, just less important
relative to effect -- and here, by the way, I was speaking of this
specific case, not making a sweeping generalization.
Msg #39213 Dated 0:14:07 04-04-92 39212 <--> 39219
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: INK
I didn't write "unimportant," I wrote "wasn't quite so important,"
which I would think is fairly close to your "just less immportant."
And I agree that we are speaking about this particular case. I believe
that you originally described this as a "new method."
Be that as it may, if it is "less important," then it is less
important.
I'm not really into this ink thing anyway. I have an entirely
different idea of my own. I show the spectator a blank pad on a
clipboard and hand them a pen. They turn the clipboard, still blank,
upside down in their lap and I produce a geometric shape carved into
stone. They turn the pad back over and find that there is now a
"connect the dots" pattern on it, exactly matching the shape I showed
them! They can return to their seat and proceed to connect the dots.
There is still a "bug" in it though. I haven't figured out how to get
the clipboard and pen back after they finish.
Msg #39218 Dated 0:57:54 04-04-92 39135 <--> 39302
From: EVAN KATZ
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I was asking about your mention of Randi using shills on people who
believed in psychic powers. Or something like that!
Msg #39219 Dated 1:00:03 04-04-92 39111 <--> 39225
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: INK
And speaking of "Card on Train Window," I STILL think there was a
corner switch. Or did I think the card was pre-torn? I forget...
Msg #39221 Dated 1:10:06 04-04-92 39152 <--> 39309
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
I actually thought David flying away outside sort of LESSENED the whole
thing for me. Yeah -- is Joan Spina related to Tony?
Msg #39222 Dated 1:10:36 04-04-92 39143 <-
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC DV RE-VIEW
WOOPS! That was from Daily Variety. When I read your message I said
to myself, Biro's crazy, I KNOW I wrote "Dailey Variety" in the
message. But, alas, when I went back, I did not. The mind goes faster
than the body...
Msg #39223 Dated 1:12:30 04-04-92 39151 <--> 39549
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: MESSAGES
Let me know what they say.
Msg #39225 Dated 1:15:03 04-04-92 39163 <--> 39234
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: INK
Wide marker Swami gimmick? Undernail, stick on, or band-type?
Msg #39228 Dated 4:08:10 04-04-92
From: FRANK ZAK
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: TRIP
Stace,
I will help you with the trick when I come down. It woiuld take too
long to explain here. We will work for my coming down on a Sat. Sun. I
will let you know when.
Msg #39229 Dated 4:09:36 04-04-92 -> 39238
From: FRANK ZAK
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: B. SHAW
David,
I am pretty sure that Barclay Shaw did a levitation inside of a
glass case. Similar to the one DC floated in. If that is the case, that
is probably why DC had the thanx on the credits.
Msg #39230 Dated 4:11:36 04-04-92
From: FRANK ZAK
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: TRAINS.
Pete,
You stated that you only know 5 people who do card on train window.
Could that be because there are only 5 of you who still ride trains??
Msg #39231 Dated 7:13:38 04-04-92 39180 <--> 39256
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
What skunk????
Msg #39233 Dated 7:13:46 04-04-92 39186 <--> 39257
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
What is ethical and what is legal are sometimes at odds.
Msg #39234 Dated 7:13:48 04-04-92 39189 <--> 39235
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
Yow!!! If the method is something new and different then it would
be protected in this manner too, though, the effect is what we see
and if the effect is good, then the method will be invisible.
Msg #39235 Dated 7:13:52 04-04-92 39213 <--> 39236
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: INK
You have a member of the magic police collect the clipboard and
pen as the spectator leaves the auditorium.
Msg #39236 Dated 7:13:55 04-04-92 39219 <--> 39239
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: INK
I think you went for the "pretorn" angle, though someone on Copper-
field's production staff told me that Pete Biro had guessed the
method. Tatoo from Fantasy Island was standing on a shelf
outside the moving train car.
Msg #39238 Dated 10:10:10 04-04-92 39229 <--> 39270
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: B. SHAW
Thanks, Frank.
Msg #39239 Dated 10:11:19 04-04-92 39235 <--> 39243
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: INK
RE: Collection by magic police.
Hmmm . . . That seems almost reasonable. Thanks for the suggestion!
Msg #39241 Dated 10:47:36 04-04-92 38986 <--> 39242
From: MIKE KING
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I never said that someone should do "sloppy" magic. I can safely say
that the majority of magicians that I have seen in my lifetime has
rarely been entertaining. Oh, the magic they presented was just like
it read in the book, or was presented by the magi's teacher. But the
"act" sucked because it was not entertaining. If I do a 12 minute
routine in a night club and I only performed three effects and the
balance of the act consisted of well delivered lines or gags and
effects not containing magic. AND, the audience is entertained. I
have done my job and the job of any PROFESSIONAL magician, who is out
there making a living. ENTERTAINING. That's the bottem line. I have
been performing professionally for almost twenty-five years with much
success both in entertaining audiences and financially. Maybe this
method of being entertaining first and being a textbook magician works
for just me. But it works. I wish more magicians would spend time
entertaining lay audiences (the ones who pay decent wages0 and not
trying to entertain, uh excuse me, FOOL themselves and their magic
buddies. I think magic is a great vehicle to entertain with, but if
you are not entertaining, you missed the target!!!!!
Msg #39242 Dated 11:19:21 04-04-92 39241 <--> 39247
From: SCOTT ALCALAY
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
RIGHT ON!!
Msg #39243 Dated 11:39:15 04-04-92 39236 <--> 39244
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: INK
Grrrrrroan.
Msg #39244 Dated 11:40:01 04-04-92 39234 <--> 39249
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: INK
I agree methods are protected under these same ethical guidelines.
Refer, however, to my message to David L., where I ask -- how the
heck do you KNOW you're stealing a method without a) exposing yours,
and b) asking the other guy to expose his! I suppose this dilemna is
at the heart of why effects are easier to take a stand on than methods!
Msg #39247 Dated 12:32:47 04-04-92 39241 <--> 39251
From: T A WATERS
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I won't necessarily disagree with what you've said -- but I will say
that the line (not in your message) I hear from magicians -- "Hey, I
don't care what I do, as long as I entertain them" -- is one I have
heard from virtually no other kind of performer. It always translates
in my mind as "I am so desperate for attention and approval that I will
do whatever the audience wants."
I have always thought the whole idea of performance work as art is
NOT necessarily to do what the audience wants -- but to do what YOU
want and make them like it.
Msg #39248 Dated 12:36:18 04-04-92 39146 <-
From: PHILIP HOPBELL
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: T.V. OR NOT T.V.????
The Glass box bit, I imagine (since I've seen him do it).
.
Msg #39249 Dated 12:42:36 04-04-92 39207 <--> 39255
From: T A WATERS
To: MAX MAVEN (X)
Re: INK
(Correction of earlier post) Agreed; but since the effect I published
had very specifically to do with a liquid taking the shape of a
thought-of design, I thought it was worth mentioning.
Msg #39250 Dated 12:56:35 04-04-92 -> 39252
From: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (X)
Re: SUNDAY 4/5
Hi David.
Just wondering if that PIG thing was actually happening
on Sunday, before or after the lecture, or not at all.
Somehow, I lost track of the consensus.
Thanks again for providing this bbs.
Raymond.
Msg #39251 Dated 13:04:30 04-04-92 39247 <--> 39253
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Magic is the conquering of minds and the overcoming of the public's
will - by force, if necessary!
Msg #39252 Dated 13:08:39 04-04-92 39250 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: RAYMOND GOLDSTEIN (X)
Re: SUNDAY 4/5
Ooopss, Raymond - I think you slipped a date! The Great Pig Wake was
FRIDAY!!! The reports are here on MAGIC!, in public messages addressed
to Arnaud Vanrietschoten - Messages # 39122, 39124, and 39129.
You are, of course, free to go over to the site and hold your own brief
memorial - a moment of silence, perhaps, or whatever proclaimation of
sentiment you feel motivated to.
After we decided that we weren't going to send the bag of crispy fried
pork skins that was part of the centerpiece to Arnaud, due to potential
problems with customs, we though of leaving it at the site, but Mike
King ate the skins. You might want to cast a flower or two into the
birdbath.
Msg #39253 Dated 13:16:05 04-04-92 39251 <--> 39289
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Actually, I agree with what you wrote. I don't think that
"entertainment" alone justifies magic. There should be more depth to
it.
You also wrote:
"I have always thought the whole idea of performance work as art is
NOT necessarily to do what the audience wants -- but to do what YOU
want and make them like it."
I'm glad you wrote "not necessarily," since I think it is also possible
to do what they want and to still have performance work as art, but I'm
not so sure that "make them like it" is an absolute. There is a great
deal of art that I don't "like" but that I can consider, contemplate,
admire and respect. On the other hand, there are any number of
"artists" who can do what they want to do and who produce little more
than trash. The ability to merely "do what you want" is by no means a
criteria for performance work as art.
P.S. - The line in my previous message, about "the conquering of minds
and . . . " pis properly credited to Mel Blanc who originally used it
to describe advertising.
Msg #39254 Dated 13:53:20 04-04-92 38940 <-
From: STEVEN KRAMER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ACADEMY AWARDS SHOW
I did not see Peter Pan flying stuff, expose of the wires , Doug
Henning or how Robin Williams flew. I did have a mental impression that
you would be sitting in the second row, just as I can see you sitting
at your computer as you read this. Seriously what was shown and is
there a video tape of it that I could review? Thanks as always!
Msg #39255 Dated 14:08:41 04-04-92 39163 <--> 39545
From: STEVEN KRAMER
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: INK
What ball point pen and wide marker are you talking about.Thumb
writers? If so are they available? For how much and what kind are they?
Msg #39256 Dated 15:20:57 04-04-92 39187 <--> 39258
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: SCOTT ALCALAY (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Scott, you did not read the message you responed to very well. The
statment of being "Deity" to kids refered to children under the age of
5. I often deal with children, magically and non-magically, and I will
be the first to admit how smart kids can be and are.
Msg #39257 Dated 15:24:42 04-04-92 39233 <--> 39261
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Agreed! What is legal is not always ethical. I have also often heard
that you cannot legislate morality. I would content that ALL
legislation is based in morality.
Another point about making it you own style. If you watch Star Trek
the Next Generation, there is an episode where Data (an android) is
performing a violin solo. When complimented on his performace he
listed all the violinist he copied. The Captain responed that it was
by his mixture of these Master's styles that he created his OWN unique
style.
Msg #39258 Dated 15:33:54 04-04-92 39231 <--> 39262
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Tabby,
The skunk is a puppet the the kids are told (before revelation) is a
rabbit. I would like the "skunk" to do an effect for the kids. It
needs to be visual, and must be able to be done with one hand withing
the bowels of a skunk.
Msg #39261 Dated 16:44:22 04-04-92 39257 <--> 39279
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
I'm not so sure that ALL legislation is based on morality! I think
that there is potential for morality. First, of course, we'd have
to agree on what is moral.
Msg #39262 Dated 16:44:26 04-04-92 39258 <--> 39278
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
After Steve Spill's mindreading goose and Dave Williamson's
racoon puppet I don't know exactly where to go with a skunk
puppet. Maybe something with a "wilting flower". Seems like
I used to see them in catalogs when I could afford to window
shop. Could you turn him inside out and use him for an egg
bag?? Surely David Ginn has something on skunks. Maybe you're
on to something "new". Do city kids know that skunks have the
potential to foul the air? Maybe have him do some card fans or
work a ball and vase? Put a baseball cap on his head, if you use
sunglasses, people might think you're spoofing Spill.
Msg #39265 Dated 17:17:06 04-04-92 -> 39293
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
Dante:
Congratulations on Issue # 666! I have a "Letter to the Editor" that
I am about to post here (as well as sending you a paper copy). Here
I've addressed it to "All."
Msg #39266 Dated 17:18:37 04-04-92 -> 39274
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: GENII ISSUE # 666!
Dear Dante:
Congratulations to you, the entire Larsen family, and the GENII
staff on the publication of Issue # 666! A beautiful issue it is
too! (Although I have no doubt that you may receive a few back in
the mail).
T. A. Waters and Max Maven did a very nice job of dealing with some
of the various forms of numerology and some of the possible
mathematics connected with 666, although I have a small dispute with
the use of 18, since, in some numerological circles, it is the
number for "Life."
And they did overlook, or perhaps choose not to mention, a
couple of rather interesting additional items:
Maven, in Hebrew, is spelled Mem - Vov - Nun. The
Numerical Value for these letters is:
Mem = 40
Vov = 6
Nun = 50
____
96 A rather interesting number in itself!
And adding these digits together we get 9+6 = 15
Adding the resulting digits together we get
1+5 = 6 - "The sole digit used to compose the
Number of the Beast!" (Max, pg. 421)
"Waters" is not a Hebrew word itself, but the Hebrew word for
Water is Mayim, spelled Mem - Yod - Mem. The Numerical Value
for these letters is:
Mem = 40
Yod = 10
Mem = 40
____
90 Another most interesting number! Adding these
digits together we get 9+0 = 9, T. A.'s upside
down or reversed 6! Nine is also composed of
3 + 6, "three 6's!"
If we multiply the single digit for Maven times the single digit
for Waters we get 6 x 9 = 54. Reduce this to a single digit
5 + 4 = 9 and we are back again!
Even more interesting, if we take "Maven's Number" - 96 and
multiply it by "Water's Number" - 90 we get 96 x 90 = 8640.
If we add those digits together - 8 + 6 + 4 + 0 we get 18,
the sum of the digits in 666! (But remember, 18 is also a
positive number for "Life").
There may be a small quibble with this set of interpretations, since
neither the Devil or Satan appear in the Old Testament, but the
numbers certainly prove interesting!
Sincerely,
David Lichtman
Msg #39267 Dated 17:54:22 04-04-92 38405 <-
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: GINN LECTURE
That's OK, It's on the evening of the 8th... (Of course, you'll
probably be in SO. Cal then too)
Msg #39269 Dated 17:56:58 04-04-92 39048 <--> 39287
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: CHUCK RUBEY (X)
Re: PCAM REGISTRATION
I'll try to call tomorrow (Sunday). If not, I'll see you (hopefully) on
the 8th.
Msg #39270 Dated 17:59:10 04-04-92 39238 <-
From: FRANK ZAK
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: B. SHAW
your welcome!!!
Msg #39272 Dated 18:07:10 04-04-92 -> 39275
From: SCOTT CRAM
To: ALL
Re: WHATSHISNAMES SPECIAL
Little joke, up there. If you don't get it, what's his name is
COpperfield.... (Ok, not funny...)
Great special! Loved the elevator, the ORson Welles effect & the
flying! All in all, his best special of the last 14.
A few constructive criticisms however...
1. The staging of the compression illusion was too "busy" for me. The
background, the moving lights, all the people in there PLUS the
illusion. This illusion could be staged simpler.
2. The graffiti wall is a great illusion, but falls under the category
of "too perfect". It's too easy for the layperson to say, "Well, he
just payed off these people." Even if he didn't do it that way, that
explains it for the layperson.
3. At the beginning of the show, there was a video effect of a lady's
eye turning into a bird's eye (No, not the salad dressing). Isn't it a
little too suggestive to use a video effect before a magic special?
Still, no one really remembers that, so I guess D.C. pulled it off!
I know everyone enjoyed the special, so I hate to bring up this side of
it. Like I said, it was his best special.
Well, I'm off to sleep. I want to wake up early, so I can get good
seats when the D.C. tickets for his S.F. appearance go on sale.
Msg #39274 Dated 18:56:55 04-04-92 39266 <--> 39277
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: GENII ISSUE # 666!
If the devil or Satan doesn't appear in the old testament, who's the
one goading God to put Job through his paces? I forget.
Msg #39275 Dated 18:58:04 04-04-92 39272 <--> 39560
From: EVAN KATZ
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: WHATSHISNAMES SPECIAL
I thought he did a very good job with the thrown brick of proving that
the people were not stooges. I'm sure, in fact, that no small amount
of thinking went into proving to the audience this very thing.
Msg #39276 Dated 20:52:28 04-04-92 38715 <-
From: JOHN JOLLY
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC FLYING
So...this is Magish Hell! You missed the best yet, Pete. I know you
will have seen a tape by now, so, whadya' think?
jj
......................!poof!
Msg #39277 Dated 20:54:20 04-04-92 39274 <--> 39411
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: GENII ISSUE # 666!
Actually, I meant the Pentateuch. Indeed, he makes cameo appearances
in Chronicles and Zachariah and does a pretty full blown show in Job.
I will correct my letter in the print version.
Msg #39278 Dated 21:38:15 04-04-92 39262 <--> 39315
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
I have now heard of twice about Steve Spill's mindreading goose and
once about Dave Williamson's racoon. I have never seen them. I have
only been in LA for 3 years and only getting active in magic again
after a long absence. Could someone tell me where I could see Steve
and Dave to see what they do so that I don't tread on anyone's toes.
Or at least a brief description of what these acts do.
s
Msg #39279 Dated 21:41:51 04-04-92 39261 <--> 39291
From: STEPHEN OSBORN
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
I will contend that ALL legislation is based on someones morality, or
even possibly their immorality. We will have a very difficult time
agreeing on what is moral.
If you disagree, post an example.
It is easier to disprove a theory than to prove it.
Msg #39280 Dated 22:25:15 04-04-92 -> 39286
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: STUFF
Saturday and Sunday is just jim dandy with me. There is a David
Ginn lecture Saturday night, and if you wouldn't mind accompanying
me, I would be all kinds of happy. Brian isn't too interested, so
he wants to stay home with the girls. Should be a good enoug turn
out of mages there. The Cove is best visited in the daytime as
well as picking up the modem. How well do you know San Diego?
Now I have a really stupid question, and I THOUGHT I knew the
answer, but Max is confusing me now and...well, if you laugh I'll
get all upset, as you know I can. Aren't Max Maven and Phil
Goldstein the same person? I mean, I realize Max is Phil's alter
ego or something along those lines...isn't he? Max said if I
looked at Genii circa 1980 I will see thet he looks nothing like
Phil Goldstein. Whatdafuck? I thought he WAS Phil Goldstein!
Well, this question isn't as dumb as SOME of the stupid things I
have done. Last year at the S.A.M. convention I went looking for
another favorite of mine. My girlfriend saved me from making a
TOTAL fool of myself. You see, I was looking for Milbourne
Christopher. Well, hell, nobody TOLD me he died. I can't keep
track of EVERYONE. You rag on me and I'll put marbles in your bed.
AFTER they have been in the freezer for about two days!
Msg #39286 Dated 23:11:50 04-04-92 39280 <--> 39292
From: FRANK ZAK
To: STACEY MACKENZIE (X)
Re: STUFF
Stace,
Max and Phil are one and the same. Phil does magic, Max does
mentalism. I think I would gag watching someone lecture on magic for
monsters. The way it looks because of vacations at work I wont be able
to come down untilthe end of the month. Next week I am off on FRI and
Sat. the following week I have friends from Reno coming down. That puts
me at the end of the month. I'm sorry. I really want to come down. I
need the fast modem!!!! The thought of marbles sounds kinky. I think I
like it. Talk to you soon.
Msg #39287 Dated 23:22:31 04-04-92 39148 <--> 39288
From: CHUCK RUBEY
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PCAM REGISTRATION
Sounds great; I sent in my registration $ this week. Looking forward to
it. See you there. By the way, I was in Asilomar in February and loved
it. Thought that it would be a great place for a magical conference.
Then I discovered that PCAM was to be held there. To me that was a
great coincidence. Regards, Chuck
Msg #39288 Dated 23:25:58 04-04-92 39269 <--> 39306
From: CHUCK RUBEY
To: SCOTT CRAM (X)
Re: PCAM REGISTRATION
Great, I'll be home most of the day.
Regards, Chuck
Msg #39289 Dated 23:28:56 04-04-92 39247 <--> 39295
From: MIKE KING
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Agreed. I think the effects performed should be the ones that
entertain the audience, not the magician.
Msg #39291 Dated 23:52:09 04-04-92 39279 <--> 39320
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Stephen and Tabby,
This is an interesting topic, but I think it is beginning to depart
from its relationship to magic.
Msg #39292 Dated 23:55:04 04-04-92 39286 <--> 39350
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: FRANK ZAK (X)
Re: STUFF
Frank and Stacey,
I do hope you two realize you are conversing in public!
Msg #39293 Dated 23:58:00 04-04-92 39265 <--> 39321
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
Dante:
Do NOT use the letter I posted here! In typing it up, I discovered a
couple of extra "surprise" connections! Please consider using the one
I send you in the mail!
Thanks!
Msg #39295 Dated 23:57:19 04-04-92 39253 <--> 39297
From: T A WATERS
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
When I say "make them like it" -- I don't necessarily mean that they
should ENJOY it (I like Ingmar Bergman movies but I sure as hell don't
enjoy most of them), but that there should be something in it they
should respond to.
Another problem is that magicians (I am generalizing now) equate
entertainment with either laughs or applause, and if they aren't
getting either they become nervous -- which is why a lot of them try
mentalism and drop it very quickly. Sometimes rapt attention and
uneasy whispering is the best response possible.
There seems to be a general notion of magic as light, "fun"
entertainment; certainly that can be an aspect of it, but not the only
one -- and in my view not the ideal one.
Msg #39297 Dated 0:04:51 04-05-92 39289 <--> 39311
From: T A WATERS
To: MIKE KING (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
But -- what I said is almost exactly the opposite; that you should do
the effects YOU want to do, and figure out a way to make the audience
appreciate them...
Msg #39298 Dated 0:14:17 04-05-92 38908 <--> 39299
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: DC XIV
Right the triangle is the highest percentage. Most people consider
the triangle to more 'geometrical' than other shapes.
Msg #39299 Dated 0:14:18 04-05-92 38910 <--> 39300
From: JERRY BURTON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Gee I would hate to think the effect uses a stooge and the only form
that can be made is a triangle. I forget the percentages but the
triangle has the highest probability of being drawn, next the square,
third the cicle. There are 3 sigma people that draw rectangles,
ellipses, and trapazoids. I happen the favor the pentagram.
Msg #39300 Dated 0:14:22 04-05-92 38977 <--> 39301
From: JERRY BURTON
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
My personal sense of magic is the magician is a conduit through
which supernatural powers flow. He is the magician-tranformer who
performs his work by channeling a higher force. He knows himself as
the transmitter, not the source.
.
A magnetic force large enough to lift DC's mass would pull the nails
out of the stage, forget magnetism as a method for the flying.
Msg #39301 Dated 0:14:27 04-05-92 38978 <--> 39313
From: JERRY BURTON
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
Even if that's the case, the person could always draw a different
shape than the one she drew before - seems pretty risky. Highly
probable they would draw the same, but why chance it ? Why not have
a triangle, squire, and circle and a means of 'knowing' which one to
use, takes the risk factor way down.
Msg #39302 Dated 0:14:30 04-05-92 39135 <--> 39401
From: JERRY BURTON
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
I think Evan wanted more info on the Randi 'shills', the 2 young
magicians he sent to the psychic investigators and who were found
to be 'genuinely' psychic.
Msg #39303 Dated 0:14:33 04-05-92 38927 <--> 39398
From: JERRY BURTON
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
I havn't had time to get out the iron to get out the wrinkles. Did
burn one and they burn a little slower than commercial flash paper
which is perfect. Will let you know how they work soon.
.
Sorry I got stuck on the freeway and didn't have much time to BS at
the Pig Bake & Wake - Oh well next time.
Msg #39304 Dated 0:14:37 04-05-92 39041 <--> 39362
From: JERRY BURTON
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
Since you have no intention of 'stealing' the effect, I would be
interested in hearing how you think the effect is done, if it is
different than the magnet theory already presented by most everyone
else.
.
Don't be too concerned with people jumping down your throat on this
board - it happens all the time ! Don't take it personal, just
state what's on your mind and hang-in there.
.
Welcome aboard by the way. Good to see new 'blood'.
.
Burton the Bizarre.
Msg #39305 Dated 0:14:44 04-05-92 39027 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COPPERFIELD
I agree Pete - some things I just don't what to know how they are
done. It ruins the effect for me in the future. If I don't fall into
the trap of wanting to know how it done (the puzzle syndrome) I can
just relax and watch the magic happen again, and again, and .....
Msg #39306 Dated 0:14:47 04-05-92 39148 <--> 39360
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PCAM REGISTRATION
Does that mean you will be doing the 'Juggling zombie balls on roller
skates while reciting poetry bit" (re:coming out of semi-retiremnet)?
Msg #39309 Dated 0:15:00 04-05-92 39221 <--> 39329
From: JERRY BURTON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
I agree the fkying away outside the theatre implied that the people
leaving the theatre were 'normal' audience members and he could just
take off at will. I bet he has a hell of time at cocktail parties. I
may be asked to disapear a cigarette, he is EXPECTED TO FLY !
Msg #39311 Dated 1:34:40 04-05-92 39295 <--> 39322
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Thank you for another excellent, insightful message, T. A.!
I am in nearly perfect agreement with your thoughts, as espressed in
your message. I'm still not sure that we share a perfectly congruent
definition of "like," but that's a mere quibble.
Msg #39313 Dated 1:41:15 04-05-92 39299 <--> 39385
From: EVAN KATZ
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
What does the line "There are 3 sigma people that draw..." refer to?
Also, I seem to remember that when you ask people to draw two geometric
figures, one inside the other, much of the time you get a circle and a
triangle.... For what it's worth. Bye!
Msg #39315 Dated 2:14:14 04-05-92 39256 <--> 39319
From: SCOTT ALCALAY
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
They are smart and I am sorry that I did not comprehend your message
correctly. The word deity threw me off.
Msg #39319 Dated 8:01:59 04-05-92 39278 <--> 39330
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Both Spill's goose and Williamson's racoon are available on video.
If you aren't familiar, I suggest you get a copy and check it
out. The Spill _goose_ is (my opinion) very funny and Williamson
is, well, outrageous.
Msg #39320 Dated 8:02:04 04-05-92 39279 <--> 39337
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
The revisions in the copyright laws in the seventies made it
better for all creative prople who take the time to find out
what copyright is all about. If there was more money in magic,
there would be better protection (like ASCAP, BMI, Harry Fox).
We've had this discussion a couple of times on MAGIC! I'm not
sure what message numbers they are, but the entire message base is
available for download.
Msg #39321 Dated 8:02:11 04-05-92 39293 <--> 39323
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
Is the April Genii out???
Msg #39322 Dated 8:02:14 04-05-92 39295 <--> 39333
From: TABBY CRABB
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
The artist has to first, work for him(her)self; you are right.
Msg #39323 Dated 8:55:09 04-05-92 39321 <--> 39324
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
Yes, the April GENII is in the mail. A very bold issue!
Msg #39324 Dated 9:15:24 04-05-92 39323 <--> 39325
From: TABBY CRABB
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
Re: A bold issue of Genii. Great. I look forward to each
Genii magazine because I know the magazine (read: editor)cares
about me and what I'm about. The difference between Genii and
Magic (magazine) is that Magic (magazine) ran their new convention
issue and left MCCMS 93 out even after advertising with them last
year as an ANNUAL event. Genii Magazine, on the other hand, telephoned
to get the dates and location for next years event. They (Genii) seem
to be more on top of things. (Only my opinion, not that of MAGIC!)
Msg #39325 Dated 9:35:07 04-05-92 39324 <--> 39366
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
I too was a little surprised to notice the omission of MCCM in the
M A G I C magazine listing. I believe there will be another convention
calendar out before MCCM so you might want to drop Stan a reminder.
Msg #39326 Dated 10:14:31 04-05-92 -> 39367
From: GENO MUNARI
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: DMS
Sorry, I have taken so long to get back to you. Indeed seeing you ag
ain and look forward to having you come up to my opening at the
San Remo, around May 8th.
Msg #39327 Dated 10:15:51 04-05-92 -> 39433
From: GENO MUNARI
To: BURT CARPENTER (X)
Re: DMS
Sorry, I have taken so long to get back to you. Indeed seeing you ag
ain and look forward to having you come up to my opening at the
San Remo, around May 8th.
Msg #39328 Dated 10:17:03 04-05-92 -> 39343
From: GENO MUNARI
To: E
Re: BURT CARPENTER
n
Sorry, I have taken so long to get back to you. Indeed seeing you ag
ain and look forward to having you come up to my opening at the
San Remo, around May 8th.
Msg #39329 Dated 11:50:46 04-05-92 39221 <--> 39336
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Evan, (and Pete),
RE: David flying away, Yeah, I thought at first it lessened the
impact, until I showed the tape to my eight year old, Benjamin this
weekend. His comments during the flying were,"I'd like to see him
do that OUTSIDE". The look on his face was priceless when David
did just that!
.
Somewhere (probably on Magic!) I heard Joan was not related to
Tannen's Spinas. Anyway, as long as she keeps dancing, I'll keep
watching!
.
David (the other one)
Msg #39330 Dated 11:50:59 04-05-92 39278 <--> 39368
From: DAVID VANVRANKEN
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
Steven,
If you can't find a video of "Magic at the Magic Castle" aired last
year, maybe I can send a copy to you. Leave an address (privately
if desired). Basically Steve is a laid back "cool dude" in sunglasses
carrying this "Mind reading goose" (also in sunglasses) He (the goose
predicts numbers from the audience. The goose writes his prediction
(Swami style?) with a pencil in his beak. The trick and method are
not new, but the personality projected by the goose makes it a work
Art (whoever he is, I didn't see Art's name in the credits)
.
David (the other one)
Msg #39332 Dated 12:19:14 04-05-92 -> 39344
From: STEVE BRYANT
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Steve Spill has two videos available -- "Video
Scrapbook" and "Hocum and Hype." Each is $29.95 plus
$2.50 postage (or $55 for both PP). The mindreading
goose is in "Video Scrapbook." Both are great fun to
watch, BUT they are performance tapes, not teaching
tapes. I asked Steve about this directly, because it
wasn't clear to me from the ads. Steve compared his
tapes to, say, a tape by Dennis Miller. You simply
wouldn't memorize Dennis Miller's tape and start doing
his material. Steve can be reached at 11012 Ventura
Blvd. #349, Studio City, CA 91604 (based on his most
recent GENII ad).
Msg #39333 Dated 12:19:39 04-05-92 39297 <--> 39365
From: MIKE KING
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I understand now.
Msg #39335 Dated 12:53:42 04-05-92 -> 39338
From: GLENN FALKENSTEIN
To: MEMBERS
Re: GENII MAG
While we should not take ourselves too seriously in this world,
sometimes the impulse to state our opinion is simply too overwhelming.
Such is my experience of driving down Sunset Strip on an overcast day
and into West Hollywood, famous for everyday being Holloween in
Hollywood. Out on the street is an influx of people who resemble
something Central Casting would welcome for Road Warrior or patients
from Awakening. Oh well, pretty soon I will arrive home to my
mailbox and maybe Genii Magazine will be there to lift throw a bit on
of sunshine on an otherwise Gloomy day. Oops! Can this be Genii?
What happened to our publication of love, light and laughter? It's
taken us so long to evolve out of darkness and align ourselves with
forces of positive energy. Why in the world do we want to slip back
now and link magic with something so negative? I mean those old magic
posters of the devil whispering in the magician's ear had their place
I suppose. But what were they really trying to say. That magic is the
work of the devil? (If in fact, there is a devil, which I
doubt...unless it is the ego nature or dark side of man.) After so
many of the shows Glenn and I do, people always come up to us and want
to discuss the real aspects of magic and once in a while some poor
soul will say to me. "Are you afraid that what you are doing is the
work of the devil?" All of a sudden, I am right back in the
superstitous little towns of Texas where the church next door to our
tent would have their chanting rituals of "Save us from the Demons next
door!" (Meaning our magic show! Actually, they had never seen our
show. Probably had never seen any tent show other than a holy roller
rival.) They did take time out once to rip up the canvas with razor
blades in the name of their deity. That's as close as they got in
their judgment. So I was thrilled when the cannon blast went off and
they all thought the world was coming to an end! Back to the person
that approaches me and ask me if this is the work of the devil. I
simply ask them "Do you want a devil in your life?" They say "NO!"
I say, "Then put your attention on what you want rather than what you
do not want. BECAUSE WHERE THE ATTENTION GOES THE ENERGY FLOWS.
Don't give the negative forces energy and just like the shadows which
dissapear when the sunshines...it fades into nothingness. " Have any
of you noticed how much attention is given these forces in all phases
of theatre and showbusiness these days? One would hope magic and all
that it represents is connected with positive forces like comraderie,
love, laughter, goodness, art and beauty. Enough of the serious stuff.
I'm certain that the genius imagination of T.A. Waters, Max and all
those that contributed to this month's Genii contrived this to add a
little spice to our lives. It doesn't hurt for us to play Boogie Man
once in a while...the only thing we have to beware of are people who
may misunderstand and think this is all magic is about and start
putting all of us in that category. For myself, I look forward to
seeing Genii back to its original love and light state next issue.
Msg #39336 Dated 13:46:46 04-05-92 39329 <--> 39364
From: EVAN KATZ
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: DC XIV
David--
Not to take anything away from your eight year-old, who I assume is
extremely wonderful, cute, and intelligent, but that's not the
demographic Copperfield is shooting for! Sure, there's something to be
said for a great performance recreating a sense of child-like wonder in
the audience (of adults), but it's a different thing than creating a
sense of child-like wonder in a child! Anyway, I think Copperfield
crossed the line when he flew away outside, the line where an adult
sits up and says -- hey, wait a minute. I'll stand by my (unpopular)
critique -- that as wonderful an illusion as the flying may be to a
bunch of magicians, it was much less wonderful and puzzling to an
audience of laypeople, who after all, know it's all done with mirrors
(and strings).
Msg #39337 Dated 13:51:24 04-05-92 39320 <--> 39339
From: EVAN KATZ
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
One of these days we should really try to compile and condify not only
the legal information, but a firm, coherent stand on ethics. It's
something MAGIC! is ideally suited for. Perhaps leave it in the file
area or something...
Msg #39338 Dated 13:54:31 04-05-92 39335 <--> 39342
From: EVAN KATZ
To: GLENN FALKENSTEIN (X)
Re: GENII MAG
After your message, I can't WAIT to see this issue!
Msg #39339 Dated 14:01:51 04-05-92 39261 <--> 39341
From: PHILIP HOPBELL
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
While this may not be the place for this, I will add that just as Moral
Language has nothing to do with Religious Language neither has Moral
Language have anything to do with Legal Language (legislation).
But then, I was taught by Jesuits (GOD help me!!).
Hopbell
Msg #39341 Dated 14:40:57 04-05-92 39337 <--> 39346
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
If someone would like to take on the task of preparing a first draft of
a statment on ethics and then taking it thru a committe process here on
MAGIC!, I'd be delighted to have the results in the files.
Msg #39342 Dated 14:43:04 04-05-92 39335 <--> 39345
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: GLENN FALKENSTEIN (X)
Re: GENII MAG
Thank you for a superb and thought provoking message, Francis!
Msg #39343 Dated 14:44:10 04-05-92 39328 <-
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: GENO MUNARI
Re: BURT CARPENTER
Geno -
Does this mean that your Close-up Parlour is moving to the San Remo?
Or will you be doing something different there? Will your Parlour
still continue at the Continental?
Msg #39344 Dated 15:27:35 04-05-92 39332 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STEVE BRYANT (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Steve -
Any word from our pal, the former editor/publisher of Seance????
Did he move to North Carolina? Do you have a phone ###.
- tabman
Msg #39345 Dated 15:27:40 04-05-92 39335 <--> 39349
From: TABBY CRABB
To: GLENN FALKENSTEIN (X)
Re: GENII MAG
Great statement, "where the attention goes the energy flows!" Is
this yours (the statement) or is it the slogan of a group or
the like. I'm trying to remember it (your statement). I get bogged
down trying to remember Napoleon Hill's, "what the mind can conceive,
the heart can believe, man can achieve!" Much more direction in
what you say. Naomi Judd once gave me an ashtray with a photo
of Dolly Parton under the glass. On the back was written the
idea from Napoleon Hill. She was still a nurse at Franklin, TN
Hospitol and I played piano with her (now husband) boyfriend's
country rock band. I had discovered Napoleon Hill just a year or
so earlier (also) in Texas and had made my way to Tennessee (the
1st time). Were the tent slashers and prayers against The Willard
Show or another?
Msg #39346 Dated 15:27:51 04-05-92 39337 <--> 39347
From: TABBY CRABB
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Do you really think we could make a difference, Evan? There will
always be somebody who will not want to go along. Did I see where
there will be a World Magic Congress this summer in Europe
someplace? I would think that organized magic would be the ones
to make a statement. Neither you nor I is a thief, etc. It isn't
us to be feared. It isn't just magic. Every field abounds with
thieves and copycats. Many large corporations use espionage and
counter-espionage and it is considered just part of business.
At first, the thieves hurt my feelings, and then they made me
a little angry, but now I feel sorry for them (but only for a
moment as I do not want to waste my time) as they have no original
ideas. They can never know the feeling of creation. The feeling
of being in touch with the artist, unless of course there is art
in their thievery. This type of thief, of course, you eliminate.
Msg #39347 Dated 15:28:03 04-05-92 39339 <--> 39348
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PHILIP HOPBELL (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
As far as I'm concerned, this is the place for whatever magicians
think.
.
In response to your being taught by Jesuits:
.
.
.
I was raised by Crabbs!
Msg #39348 Dated 15:48:22 04-05-92 39346 <--> 39371
From: T A WATERS
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Kipling suffered a lot from plagiarists and thieves -- he responded
with this:
"They copied all they could copy
but they couldn't copy my mind --
and I left 'em sweatin' and swearin'
a year and a half behind..."
Msg #39349 Dated 15:52:43 04-05-92 39335 <--> 39369
From: T A WATERS
To: GLENN FALKENSTEIN (X)
Re: GENII MAG
Right, Frances -- they shouldn't put us all in the category of evil
sorcerers...just some of us...:})
Msg #39350 Dated 16:38:35 04-05-92 39292 <--> 39361
From: FRANK ZAK
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: STUFF
I thought of that after I replied last night. However, I had already
replied and sent it. Thank you for the reminder.
Msg #39360 Dated 20:03:54 04-05-92 39287 <--> 39363
From: PETE BIRO
To: CHUCK RUBEY (X)
Re: PCAM REGISTRATION
Tell more people how great a place it is!
Msg #39361 Dated 20:03:57 04-05-92 39292 <--> 39420
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: STUFF
What did I miss?
Msg #39362 Dated 20:04:00 04-05-92 39304 <--> 39374
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
How did you draw Blood?
Msg #39363 Dated 20:04:03 04-05-92 39306 <--> 40135
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: PCAM REGISTRATION
I am still trying to decide what material to do... My Skates may
not be available... they are in storage in Mendocino County and
I don't know if I can get up there to get them with sufficient time
to practice. Altho I always do better when I don't practice!!
Msg #39364 Dated 20:04:08 04-05-92 39309 <--> 39370
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
Doug Henning, when he was touting TM was on a TV talk show and
said he could levitate himself. Burt Reynolds was the next guest
and JUMPED RIGHT ON POOR DOUGLAS.... TELLING HIM "PUT UP OR SHUT
UP".... it was a sticky bit of time for Doug...But...
Msg #39365 Dated 20:04:14 04-05-92 39322 <--> 39372
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I hear the April Genii is "IN" oh oh, I hear water boiling... bye
Msg #39366 Dated 20:04:17 04-05-92 39324 <--> 39373
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
Just hit the ground, been flyin' all day... laptop quit working
for some dumb reason in Dallas... but think I know what died...
will letcha know later... Got so much work to do I can't even
think straight... have to do a Priority List... ARgh... Nice to
see you on the Board again, Dudeman!
Msg #39367 Dated 20:04:23 04-05-92 39326 <--> 39432
From: PETE BIRO
To: GENO MUNARI
Re: DMS
What Opening at the San Remo? Huh??
Msg #39368 Dated 20:04:26 04-05-92 39330 <--> 39382
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID VANVRANKEN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
The Goose is a great item... I don't know why Spill didn't do it
at the DMS contest instead of the dumb razor blades????? ARgh....
Msg #39369 Dated 20:04:30 04-05-92 39335 <--> 39376
From: PETE BIRO
To: GLENN FALKENSTEIN (X)
Re: GENII MAG
What a great message... I sure wish I had been around to see your
father's tent shows... and yes I can see the insanity of those
"next door" thinking you were in concert with the Devil.
.
Gee, I can't wait for the Genii to arrive to see what all the fuss
is??? Hmmmmm.
.
Fortunately I have never taken myself seriously. I hope that is OK?
.
Later...
Msg #39370 Dated 20:04:41 04-05-92 39336 <--> 39383
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
I am curious as to the Demographic target especially with Clorox
as the sponsor.
Msg #39371 Dated 20:04:45 04-05-92 39341 <--> 39377
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
I think it is too late if someone needs to see what is or isn't
ethical.
.
Picking pockets isn't
.
Stealing in any form isn't
.
Lying isn't
.
Killing (unless it is an audience with your material) isn't
.
More to come? Or do you all understand now?
Msg #39372 Dated 20:13:41 04-05-92 39365 <--> 39422
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
Were you at the Indy car race in Phoenix? Looked for you on tv
when they panned the pits.
Msg #39373 Dated 20:13:44 04-05-92 39366 <--> 39421
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
Nice to be back!
Msg #39374 Dated 20:27:05 04-05-92 39362 <--> 39384
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
Don't know how Burton the Bizarre did it, but personally, I draw Blood
with a red "Magic" marker.
Msg #39376 Dated 20:32:03 04-05-92 39369 <--> 39434
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: GLENN FALKENSTEIN (X)
Re: GENII MAG
I agree with Pete, I sure wish I had had an opportunity to see your
father's tent shows, Francis. Although I have suspicion that having
the next door neighbors chanting prayers against your presence was, at
times, more than a bit unnerving. Any stories that you would share
about your experiences would be very deeply appreciated.
Msg #39377 Dated 20:38:52 04-05-92 39371 <--> 39402
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Hmmm . . . Only four commandments, Pete? Seriously, I do think that
Evan has a good idea. I think that a well-written Statement of Ethics
posted here on MAGIC! would find its way to an extended audience.
Msg #39378 Dated 20:42:02 04-05-92 -> 39457
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: ALL
Re: TEL SMIT
I am serious still trying to locate the Dutch magician TEL SMIT. If
anyone here or on MAGIC-NL knows of his whereabouts, please let me know
via private message.
Thanks!
Msg #39380 Dated 20:52:33 04-05-92
From: MIKE KING
To: ALL
Re: HARBINCADABRA
Am looking for a copy of Harbincadabra by the man himself, Robert
Harbin. If anyone has a copy they would like to part with please let
me know. Thanks. MIKE.
Msg #39381 Dated 20:53:46 04-05-92
From: MIKE KING
To: MARVIN STERN (X)
Re: DROPPING BY
Had a nice time the other afternoon. Thanks for all your help. You
have a nice collection of resource materials. Have a few new effects
to share with you next week. Hope "opening day" goes well. Had a
great show at The Comedy Store Saturday night. Details when I see you.
Catch ya later. MIKE.
Msg #39382 Dated 20:58:42 04-05-92 39258 <--> 39431
From: LEE THOMPSON
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
RE: The "skunk" doing an effect for the kids.
Abbott's markets an effect called "Out of My Hat" which is a rabbit
puppet in a felt top hat. A card is selected and returned to the
pack. The rabbit is supposed to pick the selected card. The deck
is dropped in the hat, the rabbit drops down, cards fly all over
the place. Eventually, the rabbit pops back up holding the selected
card between his paws.
.
I thought this would be a nice effect.
.
Could also have the rabbit/skunk do a prediction/discovery by
writing on a slate or clip board. "I'll Name Your Card" would be
fun to use.
.
Ideally, I'd like the rabbit to have a top hat of his own. Rabbit
shows hat empty, reaches in and pulls out small magician. :)
Msg #39383 Dated 21:00:26 04-05-92 39336 <--> 39410
From: LEE THOMPSON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
RE: Laypersons thinking DC's flying was done with mirrors/strings
Woman I work with swore it was holograms. I told her she had David
confused with Sigfried and Roy. :)
Msg #39384 Dated 21:00:49 04-05-92 39304 <--> 39426
From: LEE THOMPSON
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
Hope you don't mind another "newbie" jumping in here.
But, an alternate handling of the INK thing might involve a gaffed
pie tin with a slightly concave but flexible bottom.
Initially, the ink settles to the lowest point, the center of the
tin. A solid shape matching the drawn shape is pressed up in the
flexibile center of the tin's bottom. The ink flows to the lower
trough outlining the selected shape (like an island in the center.)
Msg #39385 Dated 21:01:15 04-05-92 39301 <--> 39423
From: LEE THOMPSON
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
RE: DC "knowing" the shape being drawn
I dunno. My first impression watching the shape being drawn by the
spectator was that David was sitting in a very unnatural position
and holding the pie tin strangely. Made me think that he was
getting a reflection of the shape from either the clip board or an
off-screen monitor.
Msg #39392 Dated 21:41:49 04-05-92 -> 39734
From: STACEY MACKENZIE
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: BUBBLES
Bubble bath time! What a delight!
Which magician will "share" tonight?
Eugene Burger, David Ginn
Goldstein, maybe? Jon named Finn?
Cards or coins, ropes or doves?
All the things that Stacey loves
Soaking up their knowledge, keen
I always leave this routine "clean"
Msg #39394 Dated 22:20:52 04-05-92
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: ALL
Re: STUFF
Hey ho all!
Couple of quick things.
1. David Copperfield is going to be in Riverside on Tuesday, May
Msg #39396 Dated 22:23:41 04-05-92 -> 39404
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: ALL
Re: STUFF
Hey ho all!
Couple of quick things.
1. David Copperfield is going to be in Riverside on Tuesday, May
12 at the Riverside Municpal Auditorium. If there's anyone
interested in going, please contact me as soon as possible.
Tickets are $24.50 each.
2. I finally got my Lathe!!!! Yay!! If anyone needs any
machining done, just give a holler.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39398 Dated 22:30:24 04-05-92 39142 <--> 39399
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
Pete,
If one may ask, how did you keep from burning your fingers?
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39399 Dated 22:30:32 04-05-92 39172 <--> 39403
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
David,
If we got a dirty look for wearing pig snouts, I can imagine what
we would have received for having pig flashers!
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39401 Dated 22:30:47 04-05-92 39218 <--> 39412
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Evan,
Some time ago (about 5 years) a couple of young magicians under
Randi's tuteledge announced to some psychic researchers that they
had psychic abilities. They had made an oath that if asked
directly, they would confess to being magicians. They claim that
they were never asked if they were fraud. They were taken quite
seriously, and were studied for some time.
Randi used this as evidence that psychic "scientists" were more
interested in getting psychic results than in arriving at the
truth of the matter.
If you'd like further info, I'll have to do some research.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39402 Dated 22:30:57 04-05-92 39279 <--> 39419
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: STEPHEN OSBORN (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Stephen,
The problem here arrives, (as in many arguments) in the non-
definition of a key word. Here the word is "Moral."
If one defines "moral" as those traits that best allow a species
to carry on and grow, then I'll agree that laws should be based
on morality. These include some ten commandment biggies i.e.
thou shalt not kill and the ever popular thou shalt not steal.
(Depending on your particular translation of the bible, so I
didn't quote them.)
If one defines "moral" as conforming to the standards of the
majority of people as to right and wrong, then I disagree that
morality should be a basis for laws. I have many beliefs that do
not conform with the majority opinion.
If there is one Muslim or Jew in a country of Christians, the
Christians do not have a right to impose Christian morality just
because they are in the majority.
Laws are (or should be) for the protection and cultivation of
society. To legislate that I can't buy cigarettes on Sunday is
silly. But such blue laws appear in books all over the country.
Enjoy!
Kevin
Msg #39403 Dated 22:31:10 04-05-92 39303 <--> 39405
From: KEVIN E CURTIN
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
Jerry,
I, who have traversed the metropolitan hell called "91 Freeway,"
understand completely. (Okay, I'm getting silly, but it's been
an interesting weekend.)
I'm glad the flash cigarette papers are working. I think I need
to make another batch of juice. Good ole plumbing problems
backed water up into the tub that I was keeping the juice in. As
Mr. Biro would say, "ARgh!" 39415
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: STUFF
It sounds like getting a group together for a Riverside Copperfield
appearance would be fun! I'll check our calendar for May 12th.
Congrats on the lathe! Did you get that big one we talked about at the
Pig Wake?
Msg #39405 Dated 22:32:04 04-05-92 39399 <--> 39462
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
Yeah, that's why I said we would have saved the Flash Pigs for the
outside ceremony! I don't think you are allowed to use flash paper,
flash pigs or anything flashy in the Close-Up Gallery, the Parlour or
the Dining Rooms!
Hmmm . . . Just on an outside chance -- when you wrote "pig flashers,"
you didn't mean piggies in little rubber raincoats, did you?
Msg #39407 Dated 22:38:07 04-05-92 -> 39446
From: GARY KILLOPS
To: ALL
Re: PENN & TELLER
Just thought I would leave everyone a note, in case you have not read
it yet, in the April issue of PC Computing , page 344 there is an April
Fools type story by Penn Jillette. Titled Micro Mephisto. It has a fake
computer ad that looks real, get the joke.
Msg #39408 Dated 22:42:58 04-05-92 -> 39444
From: STEVE KUCERA
To: ALL
Re: AGENT INQUIRY
Hi there folks,
I seem to have reached a point in my magic career where
Its time to start looking for an agent or manager. Here
is the story.
Three years ago I started calling entertainment bureaus
etc.. for bookings. Some of the nickel and dime outfits
tossed a couple of low paying gigs my way but not much
that I couldnt have negotiated myself. One agent in
particular made it quite clear to me that she wouldn't
book magicians. She was nice but only booked celebrity
performers.
My shows have improved much over the past few years and I
have developed a good local reputation. And in the last
couple of months this agent called me to talk. She had a
gig but it was pretty low pay. I took it and did pretty
well I guess. In our last conversation she in essence
told me that she would like to represent me. We will be
meeting to hammer out details in a week or two.
My problem? I am wallowing in a vaccumm of ignorance when
it comes to agents. I know what they do and the basic
difference 'tween an agent and a manager. It would be
much appreciated if those that knew could tell those that
don't about agents.
Why an agent you ask. Here goes. I have reached a point in
my magic career where I can no longer handle my bookings
etc. and do the quality of work that I want to do. I
learned in my last production that every hour on the
phone, dealing with theatre owners, calling insurance
agents and dealing with the hundreds of details is time
that I should be in my studio practicing, rehearsing and
creating. I got into this racket to perform, not wheel
and deal. 'sides I'm a better performer than a biz-wiz.
I look forward to any info that y'all might have to
share. Thanks.
Msg #39410 Dated 23:39:49 04-05-92 39364 <--> 39416
From: T A WATERS
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
Not ten minutes ago I saw Henning on a news show; seems George Harrison
is pushing a Brit TM political party, and Henning is a spokesman.
Msg #39411 Dated 23:39:39 04-05-92 39266 <--> 39440
From: DANTE LARSEN
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: GENII ISSUE # 666!
I would have to ask both Max's & T.A.'s opinion
of this. Me, I barely graduated H.S. (but I did
dammit)
Msg #39412 Dated 23:44:55 04-05-92 39401 <--> 39418
From: T A WATERS
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
It should be noted that the scientists testing Randi's 'proteges' had
not come to any final conclusions regarding them when they made their
announcement that they had fooled the Profs. Thus nothing was really
proved and Randi came in for some criticism from the skeptical
community for the way he handled the whole business.
Msg #39415 Dated 0:22:45 04-06-92 39396 <--> 39437
From: FRANK ZAK
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: STUFF
Is it a metal or wood lathe. Congrats on getting it.
Msg #39416 Dated 0:26:37 04-06-92 39370 <--> 39429
From: EVAN KATZ
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
Demographic target must be families with children. That's generally
the audience you target with an 8PM show. Actually the networks always
seem to be looking for eight o'clock programming, and the talent always
seems to want to right nine o'clock shows!
Msg #39418 Dated 0:28:42 04-06-92 39401 <--> 39425
From: EVAN KATZ
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
Interesting. From what little I know of Randi's work, I respect what
he does. But I detect a strong undercurrent of disapproval within the
community at large which I suspect I don't have enough information to
understand.
Msg #39419 Dated 0:36:13 04-06-92 39346 <--> 39448
From: JERRY BURTON
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
You are right there is much theivery in business. I have competitors
that steal each innovation I make to my product. My only defense is
to stay about two yaers ahead of them via constant revision and
innovation.
.
Same should apply to magic.
Msg #39420 Dated 0:36:16 04-06-92 39361 <--> 39449
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: STUFF
Stacy used the f word, hope it didn't shock anyone. Probably not a
good idea to use it in public msgs.
Msg #39421 Dated 0:36:19 04-06-92 39324 <--> 39450
From: JERRY BURTON
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
Yea I noticed you weren't listed in their convention supplement. Bah
fooey on Magic magazine.
Msg #39422 Dated 0:36:21 04-06-92 39295 <--> 39454
From: JERRY BURTON
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
You bring up an interesting question regarding response to mentalism.
Since I've started doing more I find the audience a little unsure of
whether they should applaud or what ? It's easy to know when to
respond when watching a magic trick, becomes more difficult to know
how to respond to a demonstration of mental prowess.
Msg #39423 Dated 0:36:25 04-06-92 39313 <--> 39424
From: JERRY BURTON
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
sigma stands for standard deviation. A 3 sigma sample represents
about a 3 % probablity in a gaussian distribution (the bell curve).
Hence 3 sigma people are at the fringes of the population, they tend
to deviate the most from the norm. I try to work in the 4 sigma range
Msg #39424 Dated 0:36:28 04-06-92 39385 <--> 39439
From: JERRY BURTON
To: LEE THOMPSON (X)
Re: DC XIV
I'll have to watch the tape again to see what you mean by an unatural
position. I tend to agree he is getting some idea of the shape so he
knows what image the ink should go into.
Msg #39425 Dated 0:36:30 04-06-92 39401 <--> 39519
From: JERRY BURTON
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: DMS - REPORT #2
It's writen up in one of Randi's books on psychic fraud, mostly
pretty boring stuff. He relates some of the more obvious cases of
fradulent psychic claims to 'prove' that psycic phenomena doesn't exi
st. I wasn't convinced by the material given. Just because some peopl
e use double jointed toes to make knocking sounds or use fradulent
methods doesn't prove anything other than some people are frauds.
Msg #39426 Dated 0:36:34 04-06-92 39362 <--> 39427
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
I didn't draw blood, but several others did. They were beatin' up on
the new guy regarding the ink trick.
Msg #39427 Dated 0:36:37 04-06-92 39384 <--> 39459
From: JERRY BURTON
To: LEE THOMPSON (X)
Re: DC XIV
If you watch closly the ink is raised (like beaded up) the surface
tension causes the image to appear almost spherical. I don't think a
depession would do that. Interesting alternative though. I still go
for the magnetic answer.
Msg #39429 Dated 0:36:43 04-06-92 39364 <--> 39430
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
So how did Henning get out of it ? Did he tell Reynolds his flying
carpet was in the cleaners or what ? Inquiring minds want to know ?
Msg #39430 Dated 0:36:45 04-06-92 39370 <--> 39464
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
re:Demographics, DC, and Clorox
.
Housewives and bachelor magicians, who else would use the stuff ??
Msg #39431 Dated 0:36:48 04-06-92 39319 <--> 39451
From: JERRY BURTON
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
I wonder why Spill didn't do the goose bit at DMS, you are right it
is funny. He might have done better with it in the act.
Msg #39432 Dated 0:36:50 04-06-92 39367 <--> 39473
From: JERRY BURTON
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DMS
You bugged out early ! Geno is moving over to open his show at the
San Remo ? Should seat about 200 people. Hopefully, he will also
resurrect the Close-up Conclave in early October.
.
Jeez Pete if you weren't always flying off taking pictures you'd know
these things.
.
Are you in town for the LB Grand Prix ? If yes, how about lunch or
brunch ?
Msg #39433 Dated 0:36:55 04-06-92 39327 <-
From: JERRY BURTON
To: GENO MUNARI
Re: DMS
Have'nt seen Richard Diamond re the hologram projection thing. Are
you still planning on doing it ?
Msg #39434 Dated 0:36:57 04-06-92 39335 <--> 39455
From: JERRY BURTON
To: GLENN FALKENSTEIN (X)
Re: GENII MAG
Francis - I love that line "Where the attention goes, the energy
flows", is that yours or is it a quote ?
.
I have a similiar saying I use to direct will, "Be careful what you
wish for, you are likely to get it".
.
Burton the Bizarre.
Msg #39437 Dated 0:37:11 04-06-92 39404 <--> 39445
From: JERRY BURTON
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: STUFF
I might be up for seeing DC again, will let you know.
Msg #39439 Dated 0:43:02 04-06-92 39423 <--> 39460
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
Jerry -
A three sigma sample does not represent about a 3% probability in a
Gaussian distribution. One sigma from the mean would include 68.26%,
two sigmas would include 95.44%, and three sigmas would include 99.98%
(two tailed).
Since I assume you are suggesting high intelligence, 15.87% of the
population would fall above one sigma (and, of course, an equal number
would fall below one sigma) from the mean, 2.28% of the population
would fall above two sigmas from the mean, and only 0.01% (one per ten
thousand) would fall three sigmas above the mean.
The Mensa acceptance criteria is two sigmas.
Msg #39440 Dated 1:02:32 04-06-92 39411 <--> 39559
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: DANTE LARSEN (X)
Re: GENII ISSUE # 666!
I would regard it as an honor to have both Max and T. A. review and
comment upon my letter. The final version will be in the mail to you
on Monday.
Msg #39444 Dated 1:13:15 04-06-92 39408 <--> 39447
From: MAX MAVEN
To: STEVE KUCERA (X)
Re: AGENT INQUIRY
Confusion over the difference between an agent and a manager is not
uncommon. I'll try to explain.
An agent's job is to get you work. However, in most cases the agent has
a relatively low level of personal involvement with the act, and there
is a roster of other performers for whom the agent is also soliciting
gigs. The result is that most agents use a "shotgun" approach -- as
long as a certain percentage of their acts are working, they're not
concerned. This means that it is often very easy for a given performer
to slip into the cracks and not get any action from his/her agent.
A personal manager, on the other hand, is directly involved with the
artist's career, and if he or she is doing what they should that
includes developing a long-term picture of how that career ought to
evolve. It is _not_ a manager's job to secure work for the act,
although most do corral a certain amount.
The differences just explained are reflected in the standard ways in
which payments are made for the two types. An agent takes a commission
on those jobs which he/she handles. This is regulated by law, and (with
some exceptions more complex than need be discussed here) it's usually
ten percent. One can contract for exclusive representation by an agent,
sometimes within a specified area of work. For instance, you might sign
with an agent for live performances. Thus, any live shows would be
routed through the agent, with the commission paid to them; other work
(e.g., television) would not be commissionable.
A manager usually gets a higher percentage. 15% is the most common, but
higher numbers are not unusual -- some take as much as 50%, although
that's rather rare. Except for some highly specialized arrangements, a
manager usually gets commission on _all_ work done by the artist, even
that with which the manager had no hands-on involvement whatsoever.
This is because the manager is involved in guiding all phases of the
artist's work and development.
Msg #39445 Dated 7:49:36 04-06-92 39396 <--> 39461
From: TABBY CRABB
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: STUFF
What kind of lathe is it Kevin? I've been looking at some lathe/
milling/drilling combos from Smithy and Shoptask. Is it something
like that?
Msg #39446 Dated 7:49:40 04-06-92 39407 <--> 39474
From: TABBY CRABB
To: GARY KILLOPS (X)
Re: PENN & TELLER
Penn and Teller have "moved" their MOFO bbs to DELPHI and have a
wide range of "products" for their fan club.
Msg #39447 Dated 7:49:43 04-06-92 39408 <-
From: TABBY CRABB
To: STEVE KUCERA (X)
Re: AGENT INQUIRY
Don't sign an exclusive unless your new agent can guarantee you a
certain amount of work.
Msg #39448 Dated 7:49:47 04-06-92 39419 <--> 39456
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
The thing that got me into making stuff for magi was a guy at CEMK
a few years ago selling El Crappo wands and other wood stuff. I
knew I could do better.
Msg #39449 Dated 7:49:51 04-06-92 39420 <--> 39467
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: STUFF
I saw the "f" word in that message, but since the Sysop was calling
a stop to the discussion on morals, I figured I'd better not say
anything less it get used on me.
Msg #39450 Dated 7:49:55 04-06-92 39421 <--> 39607
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: ISSUE # 666!
I was really dissapointed that they didn't see fit to include
MCCMS 93 in their listings especially in light of the fax I had
sent in months earlier, but they (Magic Magazine) didn't even
change my address to Tennessee in their listings last year which
probably hurt too. Oh well, not a problem. I must admit that it
discouraged me and for a few minutes I felt that things were out
of my hands and working against me. I felt like cancelling the
event but WILL NOT.
Msg #39451 Dated 7:50:03 04-06-92 39431 <--> 39458
From: TABBY CRABB
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
The mind reading goose is a riot. Spill is so laid back and when the
goose "looks" at him and then scrawls something with his beak - well
it cracks me up.
Msg #39454 Dated 8:38:01 04-06-92 39372 <--> 39475
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I was covering the Stadium races in Dallas on Sat. until Midnite...
and then losing an hour the next day there was no way I could get
to Phoenix IN TIME.... I did go to Phoenix to change planes... and
a dude came on board that had just come from the race so I found
out who won.
.
I had an assignment that I had to turn down to do Phoenix, just
like a MAJOR shoot I just turned down next week in Los Angeles
cuz I am shooting a job same days in Long Beach.... Close but not
close enuf! Argh....
.
Walker Evans won a heat race in Dallas flying across the finish
line UPSIDE DOWN.... He was rammed by the second place guy, chasing
to the finish line, Walker got sideways from the hit and barrel
rolled across the line. He said he never saw a checkered flag from
an upside down position before. The other guy was DQ'd for ruff
driving infraction!!! When Walker crawled out of his truck I got
to him and took his helmet (to put the Goodyear hat on him for the
TV interview...) and he mumbled to me, "I'm getting too old for this
S***!"
Msg #39455 Dated 8:38:21 04-06-92 39376 <--> 39478
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: GENII MAG
I would hope the "chanters" probably gave more PR and helped to
fill the Willard Show Tent.
Msg #39456 Dated 8:38:25 04-06-92 39377 <--> 39463
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
I don't. Sorry dude. ;+)
Msg #39457 Dated 8:38:27 04-06-92 39378 <-
From: PETE BIRO
To: DAVID LICHTMAN (SYSOP) (X)
Re: TEL SMIT
Send a call to Tommy Wonder... also you mite wanna phone Peter
Pit.
Msg #39458 Dated 8:38:31 04-06-92 39382 <--> 39472
From: PETE BIRO
To: LEE THOMPSON (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
I used to produce the Skunk from a hat. Being mostly black you don't
need a gaff. Just put in so no white shows. The most fun is the
animation with the spring action... then I just put old Skunkie in
a Rabbit Wringer and came out with a six foot long flat cloth skunk.
Msg #39459 Dated 8:38:37 04-06-92 39384 <--> 39468
From: PETE BIRO
To: LEE THOMPSON (X)
Re: DC XIV
Doubt it... tin looked flat and I doubt if you can make one part
of it flexible.
Msg #39460 Dated 8:38:40 04-06-92 39385 <--> 39531
From: PETE BIRO
To: LEE THOMPSON (X)
Re: DC XIV
Nothing tough about "Pencil Reading"....
Msg #39461 Dated 8:38:43 04-06-92 39396 <--> 39517
From: PETE BIRO
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: STUFF
I need a new transmission made?
Msg #39462 Dated 8:38:46 04-06-92 39398 <--> 39518
From: PETE BIRO
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: THE PIG IS DEAD
I didn't. I tossed em about a bit and it got hot so I chickened
out and never tried it again. I am a certified BIG BABY when it
comes to fire and stuff like that... ARgh....
Msg #39463 Dated 8:38:50 04-06-92 39402 <--> 39466
From: PETE BIRO
To: KEVIN E CURTIN (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
But we are a silly race. We still kill people.
Msg #39464 Dated 8:38:53 04-06-92 39410 <--> 39465
From: PETE BIRO
To: T A WATERS (X)
Re: DC XIV
George? Hah... I guess he's lost interest in auto racing. MMMMMM.
Msg #39465 Dated 8:38:55 04-06-92 39416 <--> 39470
From: PETE BIRO
To: EVAN KATZ (X)
Re: DC XIV
Makes sense to me... thanks...
Msg #39466 Dated 8:38:58 04-06-92 39419 <--> 39527
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: COPYRIGHTS AND PATENTS
Best way to beat 'em is to have a better sales force.
Msg #39467 Dated 8:39:01 04-06-92 39420 <--> 39614
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: STUFF
I musta been tired, or having been around the race car crowd am
too used to it... didn't notice... tsk...
Msg #39468 Dated 8:39:05 04-06-92 39426 <--> 39469
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
Black Blood, that's it.... hargh...
Msg #39469 Dated 8:39:07 04-06-92 39427 <--> 39546
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
What about a vibration to move the ink?
Msg #39470 Dated 8:39:10 04-06-92 39429 <--> 39471
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
It was some time ago... and I recall he just hemmed and hawwed and
got off the subject... "feeling not right, mood, etc."... bad vibes.
ARgh... To be honest with you, regardless of your thoughts it was
pretty RUDE of Reynolds... for the kind of show it was... let one
guy sell his medicine, then you come out and sell yours.
Msg #39471 Dated 8:39:16 04-06-92 39430 <--> 39476
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DC XIV
Bachelor magi... hah... yep all the Ragu Sauce on our white shirts.
Msg #39472 Dated 8:39:19 04-06-92 39431 <--> 39636
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: BRAINSTORM
I think he gave up before he went on based on the reactions that
other Stand Up kinda guys were getting.... That's the time to hit
harder!
Msg #39473 Dated 8:39:23 04-06-92 39432 <--> 39509
From: PETE BIRO
To: JERRY BURTON (X)
Re: DMS
You can't win dude... I get into Long Beach in time for THIER
PRESS LUNCH... then will be at the track from sunrise til dark
every day shootin' pix... and at night they ususally have press
related deals with chow and I am always stuck WITH THE CLIENT...
Monday lunch with my Tax Acct. Be intuch tho...
.
How about a GROUP OF MAGIC! Trekkiing up to the PCAM in Asilomar
May 30, Jun 1-2-3 ????
Msg #39474 Dated 8:39:32 04-06-92 39446 <--> 39477
From: PETE BIRO
To: TABBY CRABB (X)
Re: PENN & TELLER
how to get into delphi?
Msg #39475 Dated 9:47:10 04-06-92 39454 <--> 39501
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PIG WAKE!
I thought you had said Texas, but when I saw the race in Ariz on
tv - well, I know your Indy car work, sooo natural to aSSume.
.
Funny story re: Walker Evans rolling across the finish line. I'll
bet it was a crowd pleaser anyway. Wish I got sports network. Prob
had some video of the finish.
Msg #39476 Dated 9:47:17 04-06-92 39464 <--> 39479
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
TA is right. Just saw news and DR. DOUGLAS HENNING is running
for office in GB as a member of the TM Party.
.
They have candidates in about half the races in England.
George is involved as a celeb spokesman.
.
Lots of people levitating momentarily! Yowman
Msg #39477 Dated 9:47:23 04-06-92 39474 <--> 39502
From: TABBY CRABB
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: PENN & TELLER
Delphi is service like CIS, but lower cost. Access via tymenet.
Tymenet node in Walnut Creek is 938-9550. Delphi is inhabited by
many fringe and newage types in addition to Penn, Teller, and
Tabman.
.
If problems call Delphi, General Videotex Corp 800-544-4005. Loc
in Cambridge, MA. Tymenet belongs to McDonnell Douglas Corp.
Msg #39478 Dated 10:03:00 04-06-92 39455 <--> 39503
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: GENII MAG
I grew up in a semi-small town in Florida, one which is still on the
threshold of entering the 1950's (not a typo). I was a permanent
resident and had a number of friends and it was a nice place to grow up
in. Still, I remember the day that an oaf decided to horsewhip me for
being Jewish.
Maybe the chanters were good for the Willard Show PR, but for a child
out on the dark windy plains of Texas, it could have been a chilling
experience.
Msg #39479 Dated 10:17:59 04-06-92 39470 <--> 39547
From: DAVID LICHTMAN (Sysop)
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
Reynolds must have been in a weird mood.
By the way, he has said that the greatest influence in his life was an
English Literature teacher named Watson B. Duncan, III. Those who rail
at my threads should have seen ole' Watson B's threads. Compared to
him, I am a very conservative dresser!
Msg #39486 Dated 12:47:55 04-06-92 -> 39505
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: CY KELLER (X)
Re: DC XIV
MAGIC!-NL Sat 04 Apr 92 01:45
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
Yes, in such cases Copperfield is a copy-cat as well. One
important thing though is that when Copperfild does an effect in
his show,
than the whole nation(USA that is) knows and regocnises the
effect. Then to perform it also, makes one look rather silly I
think.
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #39487 Dated 12:48:10 04-06-92
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: DAVE KNAPP (X)
Re: DC XIV
MAGIC!-NL Sat 04 Apr 92 02:03
Tommy Wonder posted the following msg:
By now I understand the situation a bit more. You must know that
it takes a few days before the messages get back and forth
between
Holland and the US. The way I treated you? Yes, I treat evrybody
in exactly this way. From your first message it was not clear at
all that you did not want to do this effect exactly verbatim.
Well, with this effect with the ink, it will be hard to make it
look like
something else for lay people, they probably remember only the
basic idea anyway.
I felt it was horrifying, that even before the dust which has
been blown up by the Copperfield show, had not even settled down
yet, and someone is already there to duplicate something from
the show.
Like I said in another messge, I would like it more if the same
energy was used for making something which you could call your
own. Since from your fist message I got the impression that you
wanted to duplicate this effect, yes I did ask you if you were
really serious in considering this. If you feel thatthat is bad
treatment, so be it. Luckily by now I understand that youdo not
want to do an effect like this at all. Good!
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
Msg #39488 Dated 12:48:30 04-06-92 -> 39506
From: ARNAUD VANRIETSCHOTEN
To: PETE BIRO (X)
Re: DC XIV
MAGIC!-NL Sun 05 Apr 92 16:50
Arnaud Van.Rietschoten posted the following msg:
* In a message originally to CY KELLER, PETE BIRO said:
> INCREDIBLE TOO... Funny, no one that reviewed it mentioned
> that after the show, outside, David FLEW AWAY.... and then
> there was a "Continental Airlines Commercial"
Did not see this year show (yet), but last year I was highly
surprised Clorox did not take advantage of the
TV-screen-touch-effect with the train cars. I understand this
year's show had a similar effect.
It would be a perfect moment to show a commercial on a glass
cleaning spray, and hook onto the effect by mentioning that it
also cleans dirty fingerprints from TV screens.......
---
* Origin: MAGIC!-NL, Home of the wizards, (31)-23388725 (1:0/0)
---
[Note: Messages # 39489 through # 39499 were personal and do not
appear here.]
===END OF MAGIC-99===
©
1997, 2009 QuestX Webs with All Rights Reserved.
MAGIC! and this approved web site
are protected under U.S. copyright law. MAGIC! ® and The Global
Magicians Network ® are registered Service Marks and are the
property of the registree. Licensed to questx Webs 1997. All
Rights Reserved. Copyright violation includes the display of this page in a "frame" as part of another page. Content of this site cannot be used without
prior permission.